@Michael: Xenos is so wrong in generalising….I dont know how many Nigerians this fellow has met, how many states he has visited but he’s statement is so untrue and he should apologise.

It’s quite obvious that Xenos owes an apology to Greeks.

I really do think they’d prefer to live in a place like North Korea where you get to crush anyone voicing ideas you disagree with.

I am sick of explaining to you that the libellous remarks he makes about individuals on this and other blogs are unacceptable. You have been manipulated, to the detriment of what used to be an interesting blog for debate on important issues in Greece.

I think I am big enough and intelligent enough to figure out who is manipulating who, don’t you ? I have successfully run this blog for four years (which reminds me I need to do a birthday post!) and I think I know it (and myself) better than anyone.

I am also sick and tired of being told how to run my blog !

I am genuinely sorry that you no longer find this blog interesting but I am fairly confident that most people do not share your view.

I have explained to you politely and carefully that I am not interested to debate with an idiot who has no relation to Greece

Why do you continue to debate with him then ? And why do you continue to call those people who disagree with you “idiots”? Isn’t that the same as the name calling you accuse others of doing ?

Please remember this is just a blog. You choose whether to engage or not. It’s really simple.

Clearly you just don’t get what has happened on your blog, which is that it has been taken over by someone with what appears to be a minor psychiatric condition. I am sick of explaining to you that the libellous remarks he makes about individuals on this and other blogs are unacceptable. You have been manipulated, to the detriment of what used to be an interesting blog for debate on important issues in Greece.

I was subjected to sustained aggressive and nationalistic abuse for making correct (and helpful) scientific statements.

You claim to come from a scientific background but you fail to recognise that generalisations are unscientific by definition. You continue to offer generalisations and offensive stereotyping as if they can be proven in science. Let me tell you something you bigot, the ONLY “scientists” who were peddling generalisations based on race or nationality were Nazi philosophers and doctors of Auschwitz-Birkenau such as Josef Mengele. What scientific study did you read to suggest that Greeks have a “peasant mentality”? Maybe you used the same science book which British racists studied and then forced 115 Roma immigrants from their homes in Belfast? Racism and stereotyping is not scientific, it comes from arbitrary beliefs based on ignorance and hatred.

I am not saying you are a terrible person because you hold these views.

DD, I genuinely respect and admire your tolerance of Xenos, but I think you’re being far too kind to a person who calls people “peasants” and “beggars” and dismisses a whole culture on the basis of hatred.
Xenos has been stereotyping and abusing southern Europeans for over four years and thus he deserves the label of a terrible bigot – when he learns to grow out of his obvious cultural hatreds, only THEN can we drop this label.
Just as a criminal is still labelled a criminal as long as he continues committing crime, Xenos is still a bigot as long as he makes his generalisations and offensive stereotypes.

To be fair Michael fired the first salvo in this round.

Konstantinos, when DD opened a positivity thread and requested some positive messages, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity for Xenos to post something positive about Greek culture. It wouldn’t hurt him to do so, would it? Especially after his four years of posting bile against Greeks.
I don’t see how requesting positivity from Xenos can be equated to “firing of salvoes”. I think internet wars are pathetic, I have no intention of firing metaphorical salvoes at anyone. But when arrogant Brits make offensive comments on human rights blogs (for four years!), you can expect a reaction from me. Anyway, I think it’s the opposite, I didn’t light the blue touchpaper, I held out an olive branch (I already suggested that we should agree to disagree), I asked Xenos for positive vibes, I asked for flowers not guns, peace not confrontation, for positivity not negatitivty. And look what I got in return:

British leftist politically correct idiot

loudmouthed bully

downright stupidities of interfering moralists from the UK

Greek peasant culture and the lack of openmindedness

it is very clear that Greece has become a society of fraud and deceit

I am not going to change my mind because some idiots here

The fact that some idiots think otherwise is of no interest to me: the world is full of idiots who think they are smart.

^Just pure bile, hatred and negativity.

Whereas a more positive energy emanates from other people:

Xenos, What a shame that you had to derail this thread as well. All you had to do is respond with a positive comment. Just one.

Wasn’t too much to ask Xenos. Why can’t you you bring yourself to give a little love towards Greek people?

I had a fabulous weekend despite my painful neck

Good on you DD, I’m glad you had a postive weekend and your neck is getting better. Talking about pain in the necks,

Xenos,
No one has a problem with you commenting about the Greek state’s shortcomings or failures. You have a right to point them out and express our opinions. But there’s a difference between making a point about a country’s government in a constructive and respectful way and making condescending and offensive comments about the people of the country and their culture.
You’ve said many times that Greeks have a “peasant mentality”, that Greek culture makes Greeks likely to be homophobic, that Greeks are beggars of EU money, that Greeks are keen of fraud etc etc. You’ve been making these kinds of comments ever since 2005. I am absolutely astounded that you can make these generalisations but not recognise that they are offensive and totally unacceptable.
It makes no difference whether you’ve lived and worked in Greece for many years, this does not excuse your totsally unwarranted stereotyping of Greeks. Otherwise, some racist Afrikaans can excuse their racism towards the blacks of Zimbabawe on the basis that they “lived there for many years and we know black culture”.
It is highly offensive for anyone to stereotype ANY nationality and if you doubt this, here are what some Nigerians think of your generalisations I substitued “Greeks” for “Nigerians”):

“Nigerians are keen on fraud”

“Nigerians will continue begging for charity money whilst doing nothing to earn it. The amazing thing is that these people are actually proud of their inability to work, to think, or to get things to function properly”

“Nigerian cultural values make Nigerians likely to be homophobic”

Cretins have opinions too

Nigerian poster #3:
@Michael: Xenos is so wrong in generalising. He cannot know Nigerians more people that were born and raised here. There are lot of us that know some people could be bad, unreasonable etc but it’s not enough for Xenos to generalise. I dont know how many Nigerians this fellow has met, how many states he has visited but he’s statement is so untrue and he should apologise.
This belief will in everyway colour his judgement and how he relate with Nigerians. He has got a big problem. And I think you should go back to me and tell him what you quoted above.

I look forward to reading the three things that Xenos actually likes about Greeks and their culture

The floor is yours Xenos…

but he (as I had done on this thread) asked for positive comments. In reaction to his challenge, perhaps it would have been better to respond with at least one positive comment. You know… to break the ice ? There’s no harm in that is there?

Anyway, I’m going to respond with a positive comment of my own.

I had a fabulous weekend despite my painful neck and thank you for all the emails, facebook messages and tweets about my fifteen years of fierce love! I appreciate it so much.

On the point of culturalism, perhaps there is an issue to be debated. The peasant culture is not about Greeks being peasants: it is about how values are formulated and expressed, how politics is organised, how urbanisation was focused on Athens and caught up in political patronage… I don’t think I ever said that Greeks are peasants, since this would be incorrect. However, they are not really urbanised either.

Insofar as exceptions are concerned, there are always plenty. In social science we are resigned to them, but they do not invalidate general observations. But thank you for your comments, which I appreciate.

Xenos: indeed it is not racism. What about chauvinism? or culturalism? I am fully aware of the context since I went and read the problematic posts.

As for me not understanding Greece, with all due respect I have grown up in Greece and lived there 20 years. Gone through the full socialisation (school, university army)
Have you done this?

To say that Greek society is still a peasant society and that all Greeks are peasants is not factual because you have not a)defined what peasant means b)provided us with a theory c) provide us with hypothesis d) provided us with an operationalisation e) a method of study (comparative, large n, case study).

I am sorry but once you claim scientific validity you do need to provide these things or the citations for people who have done so.Otherwise you are just telling people “believe me for I am right”.

I am not saying that you don’t have a point, but the way you make it is a)arrogant b) condescending. Not that me or others have not fallen in that trap.

Aret there Greeks that fit the mentality you say? You betcha. There are also others that do not. And not all of them are educated.

I am not a politician and it is not my job to pander to the uneducated propaganda of any country. I see my work as actually fighting such propaganda and “certainties”, and trying to educate people about what is really happening. You obviously haven’t got it, but the Greek government and most of the political parties have recently engaged in open warfare against “lathrometanastes” — that is, almost everyone who is not Greek or with EU citizenship. This political propaganda is now very serious — and childish arguments about who is racist and who is politically correct are quite irrelevant. What matters is what is happening on the streets and borders of Greece.

In terms of the concept of racism, I am amazed that people think they can hijack a word to mean whatever they like. Feel free to do it, but don’t expect any respect or agreement from me. I have nothing against the “race” of Greeks (doubtful as the concept of race is), and a lot against the way in which the Greek culture operates. This is not racism, whatever your politically correct friends may tell you. I will not be silenced by loudmouthed bullying and threats, wherever they may come from.

Finally, I should say that if you really think that someone with absolutely no grasp of what is going on in Greece, and a British leftist politically correct mentality, has much to offer us in the very difficult situation in Greece, then I think you are wrong. A profound understanding of centuries of Greek history is needed, along with a real knowledge of contemporary Greek society and polity. The debate with Greek nationalists is difficult enough as it is, without the downright stupidities of interfering moralists from the UK.

@Margaret
Best of luck to your daughter at her new school. As hard as it must be for you, you are respecting her choices and allowing her to spread her wings.

@Xenos
What a shame that you had to derail this thread as well. All you had to do is respond with a positive comment. Just one. You must have realised now that I am not going to ban either you or Micheal. I refuse to give either of you the satisfaction of “winning” on my blog. What Michael and many others (including myself) have said to you about your generalisations are valid and need addressing. You even repeat your assertions in your last comment. Can you really not see that writing “the Greek peasant culture” etc is offensive to all Greeks whether “educated” or not.

I really don’t care what the so-called “educated” people in your circles have to say about it. On a human level, if I heard you lot discussing ANY group of people in that kind of base and ignorant way, I would be disgusted.

I know better than anyone here what racism is about

Let me assure you that you don’t. And it is insulting and ridiculous that you claim that you do. Walk for five minutes in my shoes (and the hundreds of other people who frequent my blog) and you’ll realise that you don’t.

I am not going to ban either you or Micheal for two reasons. Firstly, the discussion about overt and covert racism is important. You are grown ups and I think you can handle having that discussion. You don’t need me to hold your hand or protect you from nasty comments when you have written them yourselves.

Secondly, I believe that people can change and grow from such situations. Many people have told you that they find your comments offensive. You have (for the moment) chosen to hide behind your “scientific” “academic” and “educated” background. At some point, I wish you could look at this as a human being. Put yourself in the position of those Greeks (and they are not just Greek Americans) who are hurt and offended by your comments. Just imagine if you had made those comments about people of colour and I had been hurt and offended ? Would you have refused to look at the issue and question your own racism and prejudice?

I am not asking you to publicly declare anything or apologise or backtrack. All I ask is that you think about it honestly. This is not about personal attacks. I am not saying you are a terrible person because you hold these views. I believe that an honest and open evaluation of why your comments have caused such widespread offense would reveal something valuable to you.

Please email me if you would prefer to have this discussion off-blog.