Enemy of the State
Published by deviousdiva September 22nd, 2008 in Personal.Apologies to all my regular readers here. I am really busy with real life and have not had a chance to research and write properly.
You’ll be pleased to know that I have been elevated (again) to “Enemy of the State”.
I have been linked to a Greek nationalist site (again) and have been flooded (again) with the usual “we are watching you” stuff. I will not link to the site (of course).
But I DO have questions for the people who are writing daily and not getting through to the blog.
Do you really think that a blogger of my stature has some influence over your country?
Do you actually find pleasure in threatening me ?
What are you hoping to achieve with this recent “campaign” ?
I will allow ALL comments on this thread because I think it’s important to see what goes on in the background.
Thank you for your patience.
-Curiosity-
This is what you feel, and in a strange way, you are attracted to those “bad” Greek nationalists that you hate and try to oppose. YOU, an “Enemy of the State”? No, you are working FOR the Global Superstate of the “New World Order” which is a capitalist consumerist circus of a planet.
The nationalists ARE the enemies of this state (and of others, mind you..)
Let’s take an example: who cares about the so-called ‘Roma’? They CHOOSE to live the way they do, the state has even tried to provide houses to some of them, but THEY SIMPLY COULDNT BEAR LIVING IN THEM!!! But just by looking at them, you scream: racism. Lol! It is their choice to live the way they do, and to talk about it practically, apart from the aesthetically bad sight that they are, they sell drugs, kill people and steal sometimes, they don’t serve in the army and honestly, i dont want them visiting the same public hospitals i will be visiting some times. It’s unhealthy.
Let me give you a friendly advice, if you re still under 45, leave all this blogging mumbo jumbo and do something productive, gardening for example. I bet you can grow many things here in Greece that you wouldn’t be able to in your frozen, dark country. Take advantage of this and pay your respects to this Greek soil that has bred such fine people, who you are starting to get to know
Nemesist’s comments remind me of this saying I hear in my head playing over and over.
“The Greeks are the smartest people in the world. Just ask them and they’ll tell you.”
– Anonymous (overheard by by unknown American tourist in the Plaka)
Nemesis what can I say. You start by spewing the same consiracy-theories only people like Liakopoulos believe in. Soon you’re going to tell us about the EL who are going to save the Hellenes.
Bollocks!
So what if the Roma choose to live a nomadic life. If that is all you need to base your opinion that they are criminals then you’re bigoted. I value human freedom much more than aesthetics and your sensitive nose.
Let me give you a friendly advice. If you are still under 45, leave all this trolling mumbo jumbo and go do something productive. Gardening for example. I bet if you go to a country which is not composed by 80% percent of rock and has normal water availability (say, any country in central Europe) you can grow many things you wouldn’t be able to in your dry and barren country.
Take advantage of this and pay your respects to the european community that is supporting the Greek crappy political system for many years now.
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Well, as the next post shows (Dimitras & the GHM), in Greece, being concerned with social justice still means treason.
Nationalism and xenophobia have been a blight on the Greek character for a long, long time. One would think anyone who cares for the country would seek to change this, and celebrate Dimitras and Devious Diva and anyone else holding the beloved country to its own standard of goodness as a hero.
There is a difference between patriotism and Nationalism. Patriotism means not only love of and pride in one’s country’s good points but holding it accountable for its failures. Nationalism, on the other hand, blurs into Fascism in almost every historical instance when it becomes widely supported: hasn’t Fascism proved itself destructive enough in Greek history?
As an American, I love my Constitution enough to fight Bush’s destruction of it. As a lover of Greece who has been going there since I was a kid, I care enough for the beauty and goodness of the place to support change in the rampant racism and religious persecution born of Nationalism which has plagued the country and made it less than it could and should be.
And please, ‘they are unhealthy and shouldn’t be allowed to use my hospitals and anyway they CHOOSE to be persecuted’? This is so blatantly illustrative of not only what is wrong in Greece and anywhere else this kind of crap is spewed, but it sums up the baseline stupidity of bigoted failure to love one’s country well.
Where is the basic education? The basic knowledge of Greek history, which has included Jews and Roma and Africans and Mongols and and and the list goes on and on for recorded time (recorded by - wait for it - GREEKS)? Get a grip. Greek history and the character of Greece exists because of integrated relationship with the rest of the world. Remember what the Fascist Germans and Italians did to Greece with this kind of belief system? Just recently? Ring any bells?
Anyway, preaching to no one who will listen except the choir, and ranting pointlessly (but to the choir: keep loving Greece well, please).
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I think you are ascribing way too much intelligence on their behalf, DD, if you are asking them what they are “thinking”, and you are looking for such a thing as “intent” in their actions.
Διαγόρας (Diagoras)s last blog post..One of the nicest TEDtalks I’ve seen
–Nemesis what can I say. You start by spewing the same consiracy-theories only people like Liakopoulos believe in. Soon you’re going to tell us about the EL who are going to save the Hellenes.–
My name is Nemesist not Nemesis, i am a mere “messenger” of the great Godess, serving her in her long road of justice that is to come..
Liakopoulos is a case of a multiple personality disorder (tele-evangelist, comedian, book-seller) and irrelevant to our discussion. I guess you couldn’t come up with something better.
–So what if the Roma choose to live a nomadic life. If that is all you need to base your opinion that they are criminals then you’re bigoted.–
“..choose to live a nomadic life”…. lol, how nice, how romantic!
Don’t pretend to be stupid, i m not your average retarded net-buddy. Since you re Greek (a Greek-speaker at least, don’t want to impose on you labels that discomfort you) you surely know that “Roma” are a very big issue, credible sources have informed me that they are in fact responsible for the majority of unsolved crimes in Greece (murder, child kidnaping, theft, etc.).
–I value human freedom much more than aesthetics and your sensitive nose.–
Good for you compadre. There is only one little issue: to reach the ‘freedom’ part you must first reach the ‘human’ part
–Let me give you a friendly advice. If you are still under 45, leave all this trolling mumbo jumbo and go do something productive. Gardening for example. I bet if you go to a country which is not composed by 80% percent of rock and has normal water availability (say, any country in central Europe) you can grow many things you wouldn’t be able to in your dry and barren country.–
Thanks for the advice, but i have other things to attend to at this time. Conspiring against and stalking enemies of Greece online…. remember, we are WATCHING you…. MUHAHAHAHAHAHA
–Take advantage of this and pay your respects to the european community that is supporting the Greek crappy political system for many years now.–
I pay respects to no one, little computer brain washed nerd. If the european community didn’t want to support Greece economically, i couldn’t care less, i can live on bread and water. But they supported us to get an economic noose around our neck, which they so successfully did. But why should YOU care? Just go back to your Star Wars and RPG fantasy horsesh*t, go on, try to escape from this hard real world you can’t bear living with dignity and true self determination in.
Yeah yeah yeah…and then you call me a nerd.
I came up with something fitting. Until now, you haven’t given me much reason to believe otherwise.
Excuse me if I don’t trust you on this. If your “credible sources” have evidence, then they can surely go an arrest the people involved. Otherwise, they’re probably full of (racist) shit.
And you will surely not reach that by being bigoted, racist or xenophobic.
If by “stalking enemies of Greece online” you mean Trolling then…I’m quaking in my boots. Rly.
It’s telling that you have to resort to petty insults (which are pretty lame really…nerd?) when you can’t argue your point.
Yes. you’re a greek EL warrior you are, trolling online weblogs of people who are against abuse of human rights. Surely the god(s) are pleased with you and your amazing fortitude. I’m glad that you’d prefer your whole country to sunk into an economic and political cesspit and end up like Albania (or worse) rather than discard your petty nationalism and bigotry.
LoL, how sad you are. I certainly hope you are not older than 18, because if you are, then you are in dire need of professional consultation.
Yeah, as a matter of fact they are responsible for about 96% of super market potato chip theft.
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Sad but true, isn’t that what they say in your favourite language, English, you worthless atheist net-fiend?
Supposed to be funny? Well, they can’t even steal from supermarkets these days, due to the beep-beep things in the exits. Ooooh, poor little Roma..
Who cares what you believe, nerd?
Actually, the source was a police officer. Now, i don’t like policemen very much, but i believe this guy was telling me the truth. Evidence? Didn’t i say ‘unresolved crimes’, you freako? That means, NO EVIDENCE, that why they can not be solved. And of course, they can not handle the Roma involved, BECAUSE WORTHLESS ATHEIST & MEANINGLESS leftists iike all of you in here will call them RACIST. I sure hope they use other methods to face these Roma murderers, when no one is looking…
Sure you are, my little ‘human rights’ atheist rpg computer hero.
Well, you worthless deluded rpg nerd, at least it will not have people like you inside it, it is worth it! Better in lack of luxuries and worthless imported materials than degenerate in Spirit. So, why don’t you go now and do some firestuff spinning, you damn clown. Just be careful where the stuff goes (you know what i mean, you naughty boy) but i don’t worry, i m sure you ll enjoy it if it goes there like most of your kind do.
Aloha
I wonder if it passes through your brain that you can’t possibly insult me with the things I publicly display. You know, because when I publicly display them, it means I’m not ashamed of them.
But anyway, I don’t expect you to use reason after all.
I am honoured that you are so angry at me that you felt the need to scour my website in order to find things you can try to insult me with. It’s cute really.
Oh, a police officer. Now we know that he’s impartial for sure. Because it’s widely known that Greek Police officers are never bigoted. Especially the MAT…oh wait.
And since there is NO EVIDENCE as you say, it means that your source is not credible. He’s talking out of his bigoted ass.
Of course you are. Hey, do you know who else was using other methods to face these Roma murderes as well as those Jew conspirators and those disqusting homosexuals…?
Don’t burst a vein now…
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Are these the same police who beat up and kill the Roma? Perhaps you should be more worried about police who are apparently not subject to the rule of law, and have racist opinions about Roma. We have also heard this type of filthy statement from Greek mayors and judges.
One word of advice: before casting judgement [without evidence] on the Roma, just look at yourselves. Cannabis cultivation in Kriti and its links to your prime minister are the latest flavour: the corruption and crime in Greece are completely out of control, and nobody cares. Just shameless criminality…
No one said you should be ashamed of them, Luke Skywalker. And, not to mention, you can always work in a circus if you don’t have a job.
Don’t be so honoured, i get angry and many people.
Crime, is discussed with a police officer. A surgery operation is discussed with a doctor. Car prices are discussed with a car dealer. You get it, my little genius?
emm… let me guess: Stalin?
I am worried about corrupt Police, but not about if they are ‘racist’. It is their country, they can be as racist as they like. Why do like Roma so much, Xene? Do you have some weird fetish with filth perhaps?
Haven’t i already told you that you are in no position to make any kind of criticism in Greece? I m just discussing with you out of curiosity and because i have some free time. Criminality must be faced with a strong uncorrupted police. EXACTLY what you don’t want. So, are you for a strong independent police or against it. Remember, they will also get your lovable Roma off the streets, for selling drugs, and be ‘racist’ to them because they smell bad. Anyone would be ‘racist’ towards a dirty person. It is called a hygiene instict. I am starting to think you people get excited or something when you take and watch pictures of dirty children… As for Crete, well at least their cannabis is better from the Roma’s, if the pot users are going to smoke something, at least it should be as clean as possible.
I very rarely unsubscribe from a conversation, but I am afraid I had to do it on this occasion. To Nemesist’s credit, I think he is about 15 years old.
Διαγόρας (Diagoras)s last blog post..One of the nicest TEDtalks I’ve seen
They try not necessarily to silence you - they already know you and fear you (if not, they’d ignore you). Their ultimate goal is to frighten the people who rea you and wish to speak up - they want to show that they’re the majority in this country and whoever shall not play along will get punished.
Fear is their trade but their client is the entire Greece.
Given that I truly admire your courage to keep up, given that for you it’s much more difficult to care for those who nobody cares about, than it is for me to deal with my thematology!
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fear..
Well, dear jew, those who fear, probably know they do have good reasons to be in fear… the innocent fear not. Only the guilty…
Too much honesty in one thread for an atheist materialist to handle, eh?
Well, dear greek: I see no honesty in your thoughts. Like most non-Greeks, I see only stupidity, “knowledge” of your country’s history taken from propagandistic schoolbooks and popular TV, and a completely closed mind in approaching discussions of a complex nature.
The sad thing is if you are really only 15, because you have the mental agility of a dying old man — clinging to a non-existent past and scared to face the future. The school system of Greece has a lot to answer for, when kids like you know nothing and think you know everything. The ultimate delusion, a complete failure to grasp reality.
Well here we are again, all fighting. I will just say this: having spoken to DD at length about the threats she has received I think it is a very shameful and cowardly thing to do to threaten a mother with the safety of her child. I don’t care who says that, whether they are Indian nationalists, British nationalists or Greek nationalists. Motherhood is a sacred status in all communities and to threaten a mother’s child simply because you don’t agree with her opinions is an extremely low, almost unspeakably disgusting thing to do.
Even if they are just empty threats, no one should do that and those that do should be ashamed of themselves. Imagine how you would feel if your own mother had been told something bad would happen to you because of the opinions she expressed? Would you not think that those people are gutless cowards too?
At the end of the day, it should be noted that this is just a blog expressing facts and personal opinions. There’s no chance that a Greek politician will say “Well you know, we need to do something about the Roma problem because I read it on this blog and..”
Put DD’s blog into perspective. She is harmless. No one should be threatening her or calling her the enemy of the state. I could understand that if she was a member of the Greek parliament or some anarchist that organised riots downtown to spread her views but she’s not. All she does is log on and type! How can she be called an enemy of the state for that?
In the same way, Greek nationalists are also not an enemy of the state because all they do is come online and type too, maybe sometimes organise a riot or two that’s soon forgotten.
Mercifully, most of the Greeks I know don’t express the opinions so unfortunately expressed here by some.
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What’s the matter my little spy, do my posts make you a bit angry? What are you gonna do about it, foreigner?
Have i confused you, my little tourist? What am i, a 15 year old, or a dying old man? Lol, what an ignorant hopeless foreigner..
DD when you leave such statements unchallenged in your blog:
I can tell you, as a non-Greek, that all of Greece is preoccupied with falsifying history in order to proclaim the wonderful superiority of Greeks over other ethnic groups. They will tell you that black is white, or day is night, to suit their own ends: there is no hope for a culture which is so determined to lie and cheat even about reality (I won’t mention money etc in this post).
then one can safely conclude you are an enemy of the greek people (and sensitive about racism so long as Greeks are not on the receiving end). Screw the state, half the greek population once were enemies of the state btw.
That said you should continue playing your little (but not negligible part) in the 21st century Internet propaganda wars revolving Greece. It would be refreshing however if your neighbors actually knew what you and your friends write about them behind their backs.
Oh FFS! I don’t know if you’ve noticed but DD left unchallenged all the statements of the hateful little troll as well. Simply she took no part in the discussion. And now you want to twist that part into her tolerating and supporting racism against Greeks?!
Btw, can we leave the conspiracy theories about a global propaganda against Greeks aside? Nobody gives a fuck about Greece other than (some) Greeks so get the fuck over yourselves. When you say “propaganda against Greeks” all I see is “everyone is being mean to us by saying the truth”.
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Oath taken: as you appear incapable of understanding how decent people think, let me explain something to you. I (and others) who criticise the arrogant racism of Greeks will be the first to defend Greeks who are themselves victims of racial discrimination, wherever that might be. The problem, of course, is that imagine that I am like yourself — that is, full of self-importance and interested only in my own pockets and nationalistic history.
Of course, I do not expect you to understand this, because it is alien to the Greek way of thinking — that is, treating people equally, protecting the vulnerable, and searching for some sort of “truth”. Dear me, no: why should you search for truth when you are so sure that you are right without even making an effort to find out.
db0:
DD does not challenge racist generalizations aimed at Greeks, especially when coming from Xenos and George. She does not need to comment on Nemesist’s crap - he’s doing an excellent job of discrediting himself. As for DD now she is promoting Stefov and MINA in another thread. You can choose to ignore that and portray her as some net-mother-Teresa sort of person - there are still people that believe the earth is flat.
As for the “global propaganda against Greeks” comment please don’t put words in my mouth. I did not use the word “global” - if you need windmills to attack I suggest you get yourself a Sancho Pancha first. I actually agree most people around the world don’t give a fuck about our corner of the world (not just Greece). And as Greeks are no better (or worse for that matter) than the rest of the world’s people there is no reason for a “global” anything against them. I do not subscribe to theories of Greek superiority or international conspiracies, Kissinger misquotes and Zionist threats and other idiotic ideas unfortunately popularized in Greece by the mass media. But Albanian nationalists do care about Greece, same for Slavomacedonian and Bulgarian ones and of course their Turkish counterparts (and thanks to the existence of Vlachs in Greece Romanian ones as well). And they are waging propaganda wars - ones that you may choose to ignore but are very real.
There are a lot of things wrong about Greece and Greek mentality. Some of DD’s criticism is very much on the spot and reasonable people would find it impossible to disagree with it. Other ideas she’s promoting (like automatic citizenship rights for people born in Greece) are matters of a political philosophy and not of human rights as much as she’d like to recast them as such. Usually people are unfortunately less likely to listen to a foreigner’s constructive criticism (and this is true not only of Greeks but of Brits and Americans as well in my personal experience). But to claim that DD’s ravings against the evils of Greece and Greeks are constructive criticism and represent “the truth” is ludicrous. Overall she presents a mix of truths, half-truths and lies with an evident bias - that’s called propaganda in most people’s books. For example, dealing with the very unfortunate situation of the Roma in Votanikos she talks about their troubles and legitimate gripes (truths), paints the reaction of the local residents in the light of racism alone (as if their quality of life has not been affected negatively as well) (half-truths) and lies outright when she claims the Roma are Greek citizens. ” Nov 21st, 2007 at 9:52 am: The Roma at Votanikos ARE citizens.”
Xenos:
To offer lectures about history after having put Thessaly inside the borders of the Greek state in 1830 takes the cake! My own opinion on the Greek ethnogenesis is very very far from both the entirely outlandish nationalist as well as the
(primordialist) mainstream ideas in Greece. And it’s certainly far more nuanced than the caricature of a history you’ve presented over and over again online. You defending Greeks - especially after writing such trash as the one I quoted and DD never bothered to comment on? ROTFL. Being of 100% peasant ancestry (not to mention non-Greek in your world-view) I cannot afford to be self-important - I leave that to Brits playing with numbers of migrants out of the Statistical Service. If all I cared about was my pockets I’d be writing to the ministry demanding that no taxpayer money goes to the MMO either directly or indirectly. I don’t.
You have spent incredible amounts of time searching through my blog for comments that support your opinion of me but you ignore the comments that I have made to both Xenos AND others about their comments. I am sure Xenos remembers and knows my opinion about generalisations made about Greeks. Anyway, I DID say that on THIS thread ALL comments would be allowed. And that is what I have done. That is not always the case. Unfortunately that means you do not even see the type of comments I delete. They are not always against me and “my kind”. Get the picture ?
You can call me naive at times. I have said this before. I linked to the article because it was the ONLY article I could find in English in response to the high treason charges.
Anyway, I keep saying I will not continue to justify myself to people who are determined to hold on to their low opinion of me. So I won’t. I think I have answered most of your criticisms in the past.
Oath Taken, here, not only disagrees or defames, but threatens those s/he disagrees with…
Oath taken: you are a pompous self-important person. It is no surprise to me to hear that you are of peasant origin.
I have no idea what you are talking about in relation to Thessaly: no doubt it is some misreading of something I wrote somewhere, sometime. Insofar as money is concerned, I get nothing from your country and in fact have had money stolen from me in large quantities (by Greeks). This is what I have come to expect from this corrupted country. What I say about Greece is no secret, and I have no idea why you think I should be afraid of “neighbours”. Furthermore, I can back up all of my claims with real evidence of things that have actually happened, unlike your dogma.
DD, your blockquote makes it look like that comment was mine. Just saying.
@Oath Taken, you did not say “global”, but you did say “The 21st century internet propaganda wars” which is pretty damn close in meaning. What I basically get you mean is that there are various known and unknown forces online that are obviously waging a propaganda war against Greece. The people waging there “internet propaganda wars” are as irrelevant to the global community as the Greek nationalist superiority defenders.
If you can counter DD’s claims and prove that they are half-truths and lies, by all means either do so politely in the comments or open your own blog if you feel censored.
You example is ridiculous. The Roma ARE Greek citizens, as much as you want to deny it. It is like Nemesist claiming that the only minorities that exist are the ones he accepts that exist.
@Xenos, you are overly generalizing and it is getting a bit annoying. Not all Greeks are like that and I’m insulted when you say
Yes, many are but to extrapolate from there to the whole is bigotry.
dB0: I have researched and/or lived in Greece since 1987, so I think my experiences have some validity. If I refer to a “Greek way of thinking” or a “British way of thinking”, this does not mean that all Greeks or all British think like that. It means that it is the predominant discourse in that society.
At a personal level, I have no comment to make about you, as I do not know you. However, I do feel entitled to draw logical conclusions from my extensive experiences of certain cultures. This is not bigotry, it is plain rationality. I find the Greek refusal to accept that there are certain characteristics of the “Greek way” of thinking or dealing with reality to be part of the same problem. In other words, if you don’t know what the problem is, then you will never solve it.
Sorry dbO ! I corrected it.