Asylum in Greece Update
Published by deviousdiva March 7th, 2008 in Asylum.From the Athens News
After Norway, Germany could become the next European country to suspend the return of all asylum-seekers to Greece on the grounds that their rights may be violated. It has already suspended the return of unaccompanied minors to Greece.
Greece has the lowest asylum recognition rate in Europe at less than 1%.
Efthalia Pappa, director of the local Ecumenical Refugee Programme - an office set up by the Holy Synod to help asylum-seekers and refugees - is one of the country’s harshest critics. Echoing concerns repeatedly voiced by the Greek ombudsman and local and international human rights organisations, Pappa told the Athens News there is no political will to improve the asylum situation
They [authorities investigating asylum claims] don’t seem to care if someone has been tortured or why they are seeking international protection. Asylum-seekers are forced to sign papers stating that they have come for economic reasons. They don’t know what they are signing
The Greek asylum system has reportedly failed one 15-year-old unaccompanied minor from Eritrea, East Africa. He showed visible signs of torture and described the torture during his interview with a police officer in Athens examining his asylum application.
“Despite all the evidence presented by the boy, authorities concluded that his claim was unfounded,” said Pappa. “The same thing happened to a woman from Somalia, who authorities actually tried to deport last month. Fortunately, the airline refused to let her board the plane. She was taken back to Korydallos prison, but we helped her so she now has a chance for her asylum claim to be heard.”
The head of UNHCR in Greece, George Tsarbopoulos, has also called on the government to reverse its ugly track record and to protect the rights of asylum-seekers and refugees in Greece.
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41 Responses to “Asylum in Greece Update”
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Has anyone thought to ask why Greece is reluctant to take on asylum seekers?
Can it really support them economically or culturally?
I don’t see why this is necessarily a bad thing; those asylum seekers will get better care and support in other countries.
The whole point is that under European law [the Dublin Convention] Greece is obliged to take responsibility for asylum seekers who arrive in Greece as the first EU country. If Greece cannot accept that responsibility and undertake it in accordance with international and European laws and standards, what does that imply about Greece? That it doesn’t belong in Europe? I doubt that many Greeks would wish this conclusion to be drawn…
Skeptic, the point is that if I were Greek, I’d be embarrassed that such measures were taken by the European authorities to my country.
Skeptic, that is not how the asylum process works. If someone seeking asylum in Europe, first lands in Greece, then it is the responsibility of the Greek state to see that his/her application is properly examined and considered. This is to protect people seeking asylum for being bounced around from country to country because no-one wants to deal with them.
Greece also receives financial support to deal with asylum cases. If it is misusing these funds then an investigation needs to happen. I think it is right that Greece as a member of the European Union should expect to get get help in dealing with asylum cases and immigration but it cannot just reject almost every single application without proper process.
=Z=
BTW the Norwegian NGOs that triggered Norway’s decision are in town since today for o comprehensive survey - they work with GHM
You mean culturally you are too backwards for Somali and Afghan people to adjust? I absolutely agree.
Panayote, can you let me know the outcome of the meeting with the Norwegian NGO’s when you get a chance (I know you are extremely busy) ? I am sure it will be of interest to readers here. Thank you.
a joint report of the Norwegians NGOs with GHM will be the result of this - it appears the meetings were very very fruitful.
Plus ProASyl is coming back soon.
I do not remember have you seen the damning CPT report and the ridiculous or even insulting of our intelligence Greek answer to it?
The problem is certainly not simple.
Greece is suffering disproportionately from the asylum seeker phenomenon, as it is a country on the border of the EU. Many people entering Greece are just entering to go to some other country. I do not see why Greece should be suffering alone in this, having to pay the whole cost.
If it were to act like Turkey, Greece could just let all the asylum seekers cross into Italy and let them handle it.
The right choice is not to do that.
The right choice however is for the EU as a whole to finance the protection of its external borders, as in the US, where Arizona is not supposed to pay for the whole burden of protecting the Mexican border.
Until this is done properly Greeks will just have a big problem in dealing with the masses of people entering and claiming asylum.
This of course does not make the border policemen less criminal for torturing asylum seekers and I hope this practice will be consistently and strictly eradicated.
I do not belive that the Greek Government is fulfilling its responsibility to refugees. It should and could (if it wanted to) provide saftey and protection to refugees.
Being next to turkey,egypt,Libya and the countries of the ex-soviet block, it is naturally going to have a high number of immigrants coming into the country for a better life, so it is not surprising that the government is strict.
QUOTE: “can greece suppot immigrants ecenomically”
YES, more so than many other countries in the EU.
Having lived in greece, i can say that the social welfare policies are among the best in europe and that poor in greece are taken very good care of. However these poicies are not extended to those of non-EU nationality.
Larry, i’m honestly shocked by your comment.I can assure you that the public opinion here believes exactly the opposite about the greek welfare system.
If you are right, and the greek welfare system should be held as an example and considered among the best in Europe, then at the same time i’m sincerely worried about the welfare system in other european countries.
There are two possibilities.You are either wrong and your claim about the social welfare policies in Greece is far from the truth, or those who claim we have a distorted view of modern greece and the living standards here are right.
In any case i’ve never expected i would ever read that “social welfare policies are among the best in europe and that poor in greece are taken very good care of”.
Perhaps to say “among the best in Europe” is a too far.
Better than in:
-Portugal
-Spain
-Italy
-Poland
-Romania
I do think that the standard of life in greece is gennerally better than in other countries in the EU. Having lived in Britain and Greece i would say than greece has an overall better standard of living, people are wealthier and the cities are more slum-free.
I have also observed that greeks have a tendancy to belive that everying in their country is bad and that they are somehow worse off than other western european countries…
For example
I went to school in bothe countries (mainly in the UK)and i found that:
- In greece the class sizes were gennerlly 12-20
In the UK they were 32-40
-It was easy and safe to get to schoolin Greece, wheras it just isnt in the UK
-I was given far better accses to resources in greece than in the UK
You go into a greek school, all the kids have i-pods, mp3 players and the like. Although this is true of the UK, in greece young people have much better oppertunities.
I’m glad you put things in perspective Larry, but still.It seems that things are not as bad as we believe they are.
Consumer spending is a whole different issue though.With wages being among the lowest in Europe one has to wonder how we can afford to spend so much.Well, consumer demand is lending driven.That’s a bubble that’s going to burst at some point, just like what happened with subprime loans in the US.
When it does the party is over, and we’re in for a very unpleasant dose of reality.
“I have also observed that greeks have a tendancy to belive that everying in their country is bad and that they are somehow worse off than other western european countries…”
That’s true.There is a widely held belief that everything is worse here and life in other european countries is so much better.We like to whine a lot and the press is doing it’s best to make sure this won’t change.Greeks may have a distorted view of reality after all.I’ll have to live elsewhere too to reach a definitive conclusion though.
“I went to school in bothe countries (mainly in the UK)and i found that:
- In greece the class sizes were gennerlly 12-20
In the UK they were 32-40
-It was easy and safe to get to schoolin Greece, wheras it just isnt in the UK
-I was given far better accses to resources in greece than in the UK”
Yes, we do have one of the lowest crime rates in Europe, if that’s what you were referring.But that is changing, or we believe that it’s changing, and that’s a cause of concern among greeks.
Look, every country has its own problems. The UK is a disaster with school class sizes, street crime, and the cost of housing. The healthcare system varies from poor to world-class, and is unreliable. Same for universities. However, it is relatively easy for young people to get work in the UK, and with some effort to make progress in a career.
Greece has no welfare system in terms of protection of the poor, but has had low living costs until recently. The healthcare system is a shambles, but if you are lucky you can find good treatment in a public hospital. Otherwise you are bled dry in a private hospital. The streets are the safest in Europe, and parents spend a lot of money on their children and their children’s education. However, when you look for a job at 21 you probably will not find one. You may not find one worth having until 30 or more, and there is no chance of career progress.
You cannot compare two completely different places, except for specific things. The one thing that is clear, is that the legal system in Greece is a disaster and you should keep away from it. That applies to Greeks and asylum-seekers, who all suffer with the illegality, corruption and ignorance of the administration, courts and the system generally. It is a good reason why asylum-seekers should not be returned to Greece.
I have to agree that the greek court system is a mess.
Its very corrupt.
However I still think the view that Greece is one of the poorer countries in the Eu is outdated. This was probarbly true in 1985, however not now.
When I lived in greece we recieved 20 euros a week child support.
Students at the school aged 16 got 40 euros per week if their household income is under 25,000 euros.
Isnt helathcare free the same as in the UK?
I think public transport in greece is excellent.
In greece i belive there is less of a gap between rich or poor.
Greece has many minor and serious problems brewing on its doorstep and internally sometimes created by nefarious foreign interests, Greeks with international patrons and [EDITED BY DEVIOUS DIVA TO REMOVE YET ANOTHER SNIDE PERSONAL ATTACK. I WILL REMOVE YOUR COMMENTS IF YOU CONTINUE TO DO THIS] It does not have the resources to deal with a large number of asylum seekers. Norway and Germany are also trying to deflect their failings onto the Greeks. And please do not cite European Court of Human Rights or whatever - nearly all European countries ignore their rulings when it does not suit them including the Norwegians and Germans.
If this website was seriously concerned about the plight of these poor people then they would open up a philosophical and strategic discussion about solving the long term problem of mass migration and asylum seekers rather than relying on pithy sentiment to reach decisions. Otherwise they appear to be politicising what is a very serious problem.
Greece has plenty of resources, much donated by the EU for those specific purposes. The problem is that Greek criminals and politicians steall most of the resources, then claim that there is no money. Stop making pathetic lying excuses for the corruption of Greece, and deal with reality for once.
Xenos, Can you give us some idea how much money Greece receives and how much of it actually gets used for for these purposes ?
I don’t know about anyone else but I am finding the “dumb Greek peasant” thing very tedious. If you really want to be taken seriously, I would suggest you choose a name and stick to it. Perhaps then we could have a discussion without being distracted by these efforts at sarcasm.
I can find out the allocated monies, but what really happened to the resources is concealed in fake accounts and we cannot know. This is the continuous story of Greece and money…
As far as the nicknames of some of your visitors are concerned, I assumed they were simply self-descriptions.
Well, for starters i am “the greek peasant” and not the “yet another greek peasant”.My source of inspiration was the british Panteion teacher that used to post here and his racist attacks against greeks that were not deemed racist because they were targeted at greeks and we all know that there are double standards about what constitutes racism in our modern PC societies.It serves to highlight that i don’t have a problem with whatever you’d like to call me.
I would also be interested in data concerning allocated resources from the EU and other international organizations for refugees reaching greece.
Let’s also not forget that Greece is a transit point for immigrants and refugees that want to reach western europe, so it’s not just a greek problem but rather a european one.
PS I’m not into blogging, i just found the discussion here interesting and decided to post, that’s why i don’t have a registered name.I don’t even know how to register one.
well, “greek peasant”, there is my problem ! I don’t know which one of you I am addressing. You do not need to register a name, just pick one that distinguishes you from everyone else and use that !
(By the way, I know exactly WHY this “joke” came about but its better not to continue it, isn’t it? For the sake of a decent conversation ?)
Can i just ask how if these “greek peasants” are soooo poor then why are the y on a computer that has the internet.
Most poor people in the UK wouldnt be able to afford a pc let alone have the internet on it.
“It does not have the resources to deal with a large number of asylum seekers.”
Yes it does
When i was in greece, (in a village outside thessoloniki) so not neccisarily the richest part of the country i encontered a farmer. He was determined that he was a “peasant” and that the government did nothing to help his situation.
He had a LCD plasma wide screen TV in his front room, as well as an X-Box 360, a video phone, a CD master system.
another woman refused to work as she said “she quite comfortably lives on state benefit” her son had a 3G phone and an MP3 player…
Dont tell me that you people are poor when as a child my father had to heat stolen baked beans on a radiator to eat at meal times
Larry: you are completely right. This “peasant” thing relates to a previous set of discussions on this blog, not about money but about attitudes. The argument, if I might summarise it, is basically that most Greeks are now fairly wealthy [from the EU] but still think and behave like uneducated farmers or “peasants”. Some of the Greeks here cannot cope with this view, and that is why they started their sarcastic nicknames.
The sad thing is that there are poor people in Greece, even Greeks, but nobody is interested to talk about them.
Personally, I find it quite insulting that people are using the”peasant” tag as a kind of joke when there are real issues affecting poor people in Greece today.
I also know what you mean Xenos about a certain mentality but this really brings up issues for me in that people tend to classify the working class as ignorant and backward. It’s a matter of language and choosing our words carefully. Do you know what I mean ? Words are powerful things and I believe we must always question our use of certain stereotypes and generalisations. I have been thinking about this issue a lot recently in terms of ableism and ageism which I have been discussing in other places.
Anyway, let’s get back to the issue. How can we move forward on the asylum issues that affect so many people who are seeking a better life here ? Obviously the system here is not working. The lowest asylum recognition in Europe. Other countries in Europe refusing to send asylum seekers back to Greece (under the Dublin agreement) because they will not receive fair treatment here. The rights of asylum seekers are being undermined and ignored. This is the problem. What can we do about that ?
We have established that Greece receives money to process applications of asylum. That money has disappeared or has been stolen. The state has to be held accountable.
Larry: now you are pushing it.If state benefits were so generous, then unemployment wouldn’t be a problem.Why work when you can have a comfortable life sitting around all day doing nothing.I’m starting to think we’re some kind of industrial power and i didn’t know it.Greece is not Sweden, even though the “Swedish model” is quite popular among the centre-left here.
Deviousdiva:To be honest i don’t think we’ve established anything.I’ve said i would be interested in data about the allocated funds for asylum seekers in Greece, but still haven’t seen any.One unfounded accusation about stolen money and now we take that as a fact?
Everyone is asking for more funds about anything these days, from asylum seekers to the health care system and the education system but money don;t grow on trees.
Government spending is almost out of control here and the EU is not very happy with increasing government debt when it comes to Eurozone members and is asking for balanced budgets from member states.
Government spending in Greece is out of control. Only Italy has a higher budget deficit as a percentage of GDP in the EU. If Greece was not part of the euro and a beneficiary of low interest rates then it almost definitely would have to devalued its currency and implemented austerity measures. Nevertheless, the interest payments on that debt are skyrocketing following the credit crisis. Future Greek generations are going to look back and ask why the Greek state spent so much. However, we all know why the Greek state spends so much so it can maintain the political patronage network for the benefit of both the Left and Right.
The question then arises how is the Greek government going to find the money to pay for housing asylum seekers and the rest. Some money has purportedly gone missing but no one can provide hard evidence of this, and whether the money that has gone missing for asylum seekers, is any more than all the other money that has gone missing for other programs. At some point people have to rely on empirical evidence to make decisions rather than sentiment driven or political driven hyperbole.
It is okay for non-Greeks demand more money for asylum seekers but it will be the Greeks that will foot the bill in the future. Those non-Greeks will simply fly away to another country.
please help to greece asylum’s
they are asylum after 10 years !!!
not refugee !
no answare !
nothing ….. !
they only register your asylum request nothing else
im asylum in greece !
@ mehran
I am really genuinely sorry about the appalling situation for asylum seekers here in Greece. Your heartfelt comment really struck a chord. Greece has the lowest asylum recognition in Europe and I don’t think that is going to change in the very near future.
There are some very dedicated people who are working on this issue but they have limited success in the face of a disinterested government. In my capacity as a blogger, there is also very little I can do other than keep writing about the issues in the hopes of stirring the waters a little.
If anyone has any suggestions or ideas of how we can help bring the subject more prominence I would love to hear from you. Also, if anyone has any suggestion of lawyers, organisations or anyone who could help mehran or many others, could you please let us know.
Perhaps the only thing I can suggest is that we start a campaign for fairer asylum procedures and post to as many blogs as we can. Especially to Greek blogs which gain more attention from the people who might be able to do more. I will start thinking about that and see what I can come up with, if people think this is a good idea ?
The situation with Greece and asylum-seekers is the following, in my opinion.
(1) Greece employs one person, in the former Ministry of Public Order, to administer the asylum process. There is no shortage of money to finance more jobs, because of the massive fees imposed on residence permit applications. Instead, that money is given to IKA and to fund IMEPO [the alleged research centre attached to the INterior Ministry] We are talking about many millions of Euros per year.
(2) THe number of recognised refugees in Greece is so small, that the state cannot even be bothered to count them. The state awards short-term status, and leaves most refugees to fend for themselves. As far as I can tell, most have become illegal immigrants after a decade or so of living in Greece.
(3) Greek politicians never do anything until they are threatened and humiliated. Basically, they are the laziest in Europe and need a good kick up the ***. The way forward is through public demonstrations, lobbying at the international and European levels, dragging them through all the courts…
I agree with Larry. Greeks complain too much. When I was in Greece visting relatives a next door neighbor of one of my cousins complained that her 1500 Euro per month pension (she was a widow who owned her own home and the 1500 Euro p/m was her part of her husbands superannuation) was absolute peanuts. She complained that it wasn’t enough, only good for beggers, because she could not afford DIOR products, NIKE products, to give to her 12 grandchildren whom she visited every week ie when visiting her 2 married sons and 2 married daughters. Incredibly she drove a three year old mercedes, owned an expensive plasma TV, she would visit the hairdressers every two to three weeks to get style and cut for 150 Euro’s and dine out with friends at up market Taverns at least once a week, and buy expensive flowers to throw at singers like Remo, Pashali etc Her home was valued at 450000 Euro’s. Her dress’s, shoes etc all expensive brands. Her reply, I can’t stand this poverty! If I were younger I would have emigrated to another country!
I encountered plenty of Greeks like her during my stay in Greece.
Compare the unemployment rate of immigrants in the rest of the EU and Greece. Greece immigrants have all got jobs, For Greece with a population of between 10-11 million to absorb so many Immigrants in such a short time says wonders about the country. The only country that complains and rubbishes Greece (mainly thru envy) are the British press. Whatever woes Britain faces their Press falsely blast Greece as having a worse problem. I guess they may have Greek nationals working for them.
Too right,
as is above, the standard of life in greece is very good. If you look at things such as the HDI (the human development index) Greece has a score of 0.926 (out of 1) in comparison to turkey 0.345, Uk 0.935, Germany 9.67 you can see the difference. Greece is included in the top 10 % of richest nations in the world, and its people are among the richer minority of the globe.
Stop moaning. Your views that greece is “poor” are more fitting to the 1940’s than now. Even in the 50’s 60’s and 70’s things werent that bad, only as bad as in like the UK with strikes and stuff.