Comments on: Committee for Change ? http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/ The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing. Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:12:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Martin Baldwin-Edwards http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/#comment-63349 Martin Baldwin-Edwards Mon, 03 Mar 2008 08:26:37 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/#comment-63349 Under EU law, Greeks and EU citizens have equal status: the main difference is not having the right to vote in national elections, although EU nationals can vote in local and EU elections. Under the Greek immigration laws 1991-2005, only non-EU nationals are considered as immigrants. Although there are transitional measures on the freedom of movement for the nationals of Romania and Bulgaria, Greece has agreed to treat them as full EU nationals if they reside in Greece. So, legally it is very clear that Bulgarians, Romanians and Poles have equal status to UK citizens in other EU countries. In fact, the difficult case is with Albanians, some 70% (or more) of immigrants in Greece, who are still dependent on Greek legislation for their status in Greece.

Under EU law, Greeks and EU citizens have equal status: the main difference is not having the right to vote in national elections, although EU nationals can vote in local and EU elections. Under the Greek immigration laws 1991-2005, only non-EU nationals are considered as immigrants. Although there are transitional measures on the freedom of movement for the nationals of Romania and Bulgaria, Greece has agreed to treat them as full EU nationals if they reside in Greece. So, legally it is very clear that Bulgarians, Romanians and Poles have equal status to UK citizens in other EU countries.

In fact, the difficult case is with Albanians, some 70% (or more) of immigrants in Greece, who are still dependent on Greek legislation for their status in Greece.

]]> By: Papa Duck http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/#comment-63346 Papa Duck Sun, 02 Mar 2008 23:23:38 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/#comment-63346 Interesting point made by MBE but how to do this without further institutionalizing divisions? Possibly a three tier register. 1. Citizens 2. EU citizens 3. Non EU residents. But then Bulgarians, Romanians and Poles would be lumped with UK citizens. Good thing or bad DD and MBE? I can't help thinking that the crucial problem in Greece is that the route from 3 to 1 is made so difficult. If initiatives such as the Piraeus one (even if formalized a la MBE) are seen as feasible half way house then they might set the broader cause back. Over to those who actually live in Greece (we have our problems in the UK but they are very different).

Interesting point made by MBE but how to do this without further institutionalizing divisions? Possibly a three tier register. 1. Citizens 2. EU citizens 3. Non EU residents. But then Bulgarians, Romanians and Poles would be lumped with UK citizens. Good thing or bad DD and MBE? I can’t help thinking that the crucial problem in Greece is that the route from 3 to 1 is made so difficult. If initiatives such as the Piraeus one (even if formalized a la MBE) are seen as feasible half way house then they might set the broader cause back. Over to those who actually live in Greece (we have our problems in the UK but they are very different).

]]> By: Martin Baldwin-Edwards http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/#comment-63345 Martin Baldwin-Edwards Sun, 02 Mar 2008 21:57:46 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/#comment-63345 First of all, Greece is the only EU(15) country that does not have a formal consultation of immigrant groups in formulation of immigration policy. The Interior Ministry started some informal consultations, but that is not good enough. With this local government initiative, the big issue is how will the immigrant community representatives be chosen. In a democracy, there should be a formal process by which they are voted for within the immigrant community. Call me cynical, but I really doubt that this is how the Greeks will do it. After all, why would they change their usual way of doing things?

First of all, Greece is the only EU(15) country that does not have a formal consultation of immigrant groups in formulation of immigration policy. The Interior Ministry started some informal consultations, but that is not good enough.

With this local government initiative, the big issue is how will the immigrant community representatives be chosen. In a democracy, there should be a formal process by which they are voted for within the immigrant community. Call me cynical, but I really doubt that this is how the Greeks will do it. After all, why would they change their usual way of doing things?

]]> By: danilena http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/#comment-63338 danilena Sun, 02 Mar 2008 12:23:19 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2008/02/29/committee-for-change/#comment-63338 it was about time local government adopted this kind of initiative. I hope this won't be another case of big words and no action ... I also hope that the people chosen (by whom ? and how? ) to represent immigrants will live up to the standards required for such an initiative to work succesfully

it was about time local government adopted this kind of initiative. I hope this won’t be another case of big words and no action …

I also hope that the people chosen (by whom ? and how? ) to represent immigrants will live up to the standards required for such an initiative to work succesfully

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