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THe issue of bystanders doing nothing is part of urbanisation or modernisation — a highly unwelcome aspect of it — and emerged most clearly in the UK in the 1980s, in my experience. It is now happening in Greece, too.

ON the issue of someone attacking me for not having done a student degree: this is typical of a conformist culture, where everyone is supposed to follow the same routine. This idiot could also see from the old CV of mine on the internet, that I held university appointments from graduation almost, and was a PhD examiner at Cambridge University. But, he chooses to focus on what suits him polically — much as politicians do when campaigning. This is a hallmark of Greek culture — one which is highly damaging to the society and effectively impedes genuine progress and creativity. Formalism is the friend of conservatism, and these Greek nationalists are all obsessed with the past and without any hope in the future. Very petty.

You lucky guy! I only wish I could hobnob with the rich and famous! Do tell, was it a nice event, good food?

Diva, if this is off topic I do apologize.

Now, as far as complaining about the UK situation where the bystanders just stood by and watched, unfortunately this is not only unique to the UK, but rather (again unfortunately) connected to human nature. I’ve seen the same thing in Greece quite often, seeing people lying on the street near Omonoia and no one bats an eye to see if these people need assistance either.

I guess overall, I don’t agree with you. But, there is room for all opinions; However, why do you have to be so mean to Martin. My wise old grandma always said, “If you have to rant and rave to prove your point, then maybe you are not as confident yourself with your views”. Just a little grandma sense and she didn’t have a PhD.

When you publish something useful, or actually create something, tell us. This is what is missing from Greek so-called education, where you pontificate about how clever you are and actually do nothing. For the record, I and the rest of the world have no interest in your self-evaluation. What counts is reputation and the value of scholarship: it is clear that you have nothing interesting to say, just vile Greek propaganda.

Do you have anything to say?

This is in fact an oxymoron, which is rather fitting since you have proven to posess the qualities of both an ox and a moron. It just goes to show that you are a bigoted mentally small man who exhibits the typical racism and antihellenism that has always characterized people of a certain mentality in the West.

“and do not think like that”

You have so far failed to present any evidence that you think at all.

As for your appeals to authority (namely your own) these are predicated on the authority being there in the first place and in your case this is clearly abesnt. You are a johny come lately who only started studying economics by what, age thirty? A joke! According to your CV you don’t even have a masters degree let alone a Phd like I do and you are almost twice my age!!

You are a paid hack pushing political agendas for various think tanks. That is politics in the guise of scholarship,no wonder you are so quick to accuse others of abusing data for propaganda, you assume everyone is engaged in the same enterprise as you. Protomyristis kai protoklastis!!

You uneducated little creature, no wonder you are so arrogant and aggresive, you are hiding your academic nakedness and vile antihellenism and racism behind the gross and anxious arrogance of the trully incompetent.

I can’t believe I wasted my time with this person!!

You might care to read the official statistics that I compile for governments, the UN and academic purposes. You might also note that I give my real name and anyone with half a brain can check what my credentials are. You, on the other hand, have the name “John”. Who are you? Are you qualified to speak on these issues? No, quite clearly. So, stop your offensive rant and leave intelligent educated people here alone.

At any rate I am hardly going to waste more time debating the kind of bigots this place seems to attract. Anyone who reads these posts will be able to ascertain for themselves who is speaking rationaly and discussing facts and who is motivated by bigotry and hate, things that of course cannot be substantiated with facts.

Furthermore, you show a typical Greek peasant mentality, which has no respect for knowledge or real learning, but manipulates it for political purposes. I am not interested to engage in debate with arrogant idiots, especially when you attribute serious scholarship with “anti-Greekness” etc. Again, a typical feature of semi-educated Greeks who think they know it all. Very tedious.

Your point rested on what is called a false analogy and I had hoped that was made clear. The UK and US’ interventions around the world affect everyone and hence legitimize and invite comment. By comparison a closed monastic Greek Orthodox community hardly interacts with the outside world, that’s the whole point, and doesn’t force its will on anyone outside their border.
Similarly you could complain about the fact that Greek Orthodox take precedence in visit permits or that only Orthodox are allowed to live there permanently and then only as monks or in Karyes or that only Orthodox are allowed to perform liturgy.
Again no one forces anybody to become or remain Greek Orthodox and if any such take issue with some position or doctrine they are free to either seek to change that position within the church or join another one.

As regards the incident I linked to again you missed the point even though I took care to quote it above the link. It is not the actions of one, probably disturbed, individual that are criticised but those of the gathered crowd that stood and watched, laughing, as a dying human was desecrated.

Commenting on what the genocide denialist wrote

Until the 13th century the Greeks were literate at a much higher percentage than Westerners in whose lands literacy was confined to the clergy. After the destruction of their state by Westerners and Turks this trend was reversed and Greeks only again achieved parity in the mid-twentieth century.

“This is particularly true of women, who were denied access to even basic education”

The assertion on Greek women’s education is wrong. Quoting from the UN in Greece women’s share of tertiary enrolment is a slim majority of 51% and while it is lower than the UK (57%) that is because the British are pursuing university education at much lower rates than Greeks. Additionally a much higher percentage of Greek women get a university education than their British counterparts.

Tertiary gross enrolment ratio (M/F) and women’s share
Greece 2005 95 83 51
United Kingdom 2005 70 50 57
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/Dem...../tab4d.htm

A 2001 UNstats survey across all age cohorts found that 46% of third level educated citizens in Greece are women while the ratio is 48% for secondary education. The same 2001 survey in Germany found 38% and 50% respectively.

vol.2 table 3
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/Dem.....ybcens.htm

The only serious discrepancy is in less than primary education and even then only in the older age groups (above 50)where (a) longer lived women predominate numerically reflecting a time when poverty and war reduced opportunities for schooling (b) there was indeed a tendency to allocate scarce school funds to male children first. It in no way reflects a conscious decision on the part of Greek parents not to educate their daughters when they had the opportunity to do so, much less on the part of Greeks themselves.

“Where did…(more hatefull tripe)…well below those of western Europe”

School life expectancy (in years). Primary to tertiary education
Norway 2005 18
Greece 2005 17
Netherlands 2005 17
Belgium 2005 16
Switzerland 2005 15
Bulgaria 2005 13
Croatia 2003 13
Albania 2004 11
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/Dem.....cation.htm

Again Greeks seem to be educated on par if not better than most Westerners and significantly better than other Balkan people. This is a result of both economic factors (communist economic past in the rest of the Balkans) and cultural (e.g. Switzerland, Belgium are much wealthier than Greece yet lag). It is also interesting to note that even in Ottoman times the people within the empire most active in the fields of education and trade were the Greeks.

To the owner:
I don’t see how genocide denial and antihellenism as exhibited by one of your guests square in with promoting human rights. You might almost say they are mutually exclusive.

I don’t see how stating that Monks need to be mass murderers play in this discussion, or bringing up some random act of violence in the UK. Don’t forget that random acts of violence occur everywhere in the world, including Greece.

Again, I am almost positive you are a Greek-American, or have taken advantage of the American education system. Come on now, your use of the English language is not consistent with the typical Greek “Frontistira English” which populates the Lekanopedio.

Insofar as the “greek genocide” is concerned, I have no idea what you are talking about. I can only imagine that this is the latest attempt to copy the Armenians [who do have a strong claim to that] simply because Greeks refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions. It is always convenient to blame others for misfortunes.