I suppose one thing I’d be curious on is if the teachers that Ms Tzani is teaching ever question the wisdom (sic) they receive from her?

Seems to me if I was a bright, young teacher listening to obvious racist nonsense, I would at a minimum ask for clarification on some of her views and see what comes of it.

Minister of Justice Mihalis Stathopoulos, a non-politician with a NGO background, commenting exactly on Ms. Papazoi’s reactions to the ECRI report, said “all those who boast for the absence of racism in Greece are people who are not used to criticism and self-criticism.” More recently, he added that “only nationalists can claim that our country does not face the problems [of racism and oppression of minorities] that are plaguing every other country today. Societies are made up of human beings, not angels. And Greece is no exception to that rule. At some point we must rid ourselves of this Hellenocentric attitude that, in the end, is detrimental to our nation’s interests.”

This is from an old story GHM reports frequently. If Martin is stereotyping then so did then Minister Stathopoulos, and so will I who would have rarely heard in my 55 years a Greek say “I am sorry”. Sorry gusy!

I find that by having you in the blog sphere of Athens is like the equivalent of having “Michael Jordan of NBA fame” playing on a junior high school team when dealing with local bullies.

Thanks for taking the time to enrich the local blogsphere with your wisdom, and for keeping the nonsense at bay.

Folks, we are really fortunate to have Martin in our court. Google his name and see the many projects he has worked on for the advancement of immigrants.

But I am glad you have finally gotten the courage to rebuke Martin for his continually overt racist comments about Greece and Greeks. As your website states “The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing”.

Considering our concern for human rights you’ll be glad know the following:

The European Court of Human Rights yesterday found Turkey guilty of violating the rights of nine Greek Cypriot missing persons and their families.

Since the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974, 1,555 Greek Cypriots and 64 Greeks have been unaccounted for and, until recently, both Ankara and its puppet regime in occupied northern Cyprus have refused to cooperate with any investigation into the fate of the missing persons, claiming they were all killed in fighting.

However, in a case brought before it on behalf of nine of the missing and their relatives, the ECHR rejected Turkey’s claims that the missing – comprising 60 percent soldiers/reservists and 40 percent civilians, men, women and children, aged between seven months and 94 years old – were casualties of war; accepted evidence which showed that the missing were arrested, captured alive or had been in the custody of Turkish or Turkish Cypriot forces; and found that Turkey’s refusal to account for the missing persons violated several articles of the European Convention on Human Rights, including:

Article 2: Failing to ‘conduct an effective investigation aimed at clarifying the whereabouts and fate of the nine men [in the case before the court] who went missing in 1974’.

Article 3: Condemning relatives to ‘live in a prolonged state of acute anxiety [enduring] the agony of not knowing whether family members were killed in the conflict or were still in detention or, if detained, had since died. The silence of the Turkish authorities… attained a level of severity which could only be categorised as inhuman treatment’.

Article 5: Depriving the missing men of their liberty and security at the time of their disappearance.

The judgment took into account that last year the Turkish occupation authorities in cooperation with the UN Committee on Missing Persons in Cyprus excavated the remains of 38 missing persons and returned them to their families for burial in the free areas of the island; but determined that Turkey was still obstructing the CMP’s work.

But I am glad you have finally gotten the courage to rebuke Martin for his continually overt racist comments about Greece and Greeks. As your website states “The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing”.

Considering our concern for human rights you’ll be glad know the following:

The European Court of Human Rights yesterday found Turkey guilty of violating the rights of nine Greek Cypriot missing persons and their families.

Since the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974, 1,555 Greek Cypriots and 64 Greeks have been unaccounted for and, until recently, both Ankara and its puppet regime in occupied northern Cyprus have refused to cooperate with any investigation into the fate of the missing persons, claiming they were all killed in fighting.

However, in a case brought before it on behalf of nine of the missing and their relatives, the ECHR rejected Turkey’s claims that the missing – comprising 60 percent soldiers/reservists and 40 percent civilians, men, women and children, aged between seven months and 94 years old – were casualties of war; accepted evidence which showed that the missing were arrested, captured alive or had been in the custody of Turkish or Turkish Cypriot forces; and found that Turkey’s refusal to account for the missing persons violated several articles of the European Convention on Human Rights, including:

Article 2: Failing to ‘conduct an effective investigation aimed at clarifying the whereabouts and fate of the nine men [in the case before the court] who went missing in 1974’.

Article 3: Condemning relatives to ‘live in a prolonged state of acute anxiety [enduring] the agony of not knowing whether family members were killed in the conflict or were still in detention or, if detained, had since died. The silence of the Turkish authorities… attained a level of severity which could only be categorised as inhuman treatment’.

Article 5: Depriving the missing men of their liberty and security at the time of their disappearance.

The judgment took into account that last year the Turkish occupation authorities in cooperation with the UN Committee on Missing Persons in Cyprus excavated the remains of 38 missing persons and returned them to their families for burial in the free areas of the island; but determined that Turkey was still obstructing the CMP’s work.

To get back on the subject I remind everyone that M.Tzanni, a university prof that teaches the future teachers in this country, believes that jews are responsible for 9/11, supports the views of convicted neonazi Plevris etc

The surprising thing is NOT that M.Tzanni says these things since in many countries people of her kind are fairly common, but that nopbody seems to mind about her with the exception of GHM here in Greece.

Greeks abroad are much different than their compatriots here. One way to test my theory is to watch how they act at Athens Airport compared to how they act when they arrive at the destination (foreign) airport.

As a frequent traveler to London, and the USA, I am amazed how such surly, pushy passengers immediately tame upon their departure from Greek air space. (Again, if this is a generalization, I apologize, but it’s definitely a phenomenon I’ve seen time and time again, and I have no other explanation for it).

Anyone??

However, I also have to agree with Martin, that my personal experience with Greeks (living in Greece for 22 years) seem to indicate that apologizing is considered a sign of weakness in Greek culture.

Now, I’m sure that there are Greeks on this blog, or in real life who apologize, but it’s not really in significant numbers to be a majority or even close to it, otherwise it would be the commonly known. For example, you NEVER hear that Greeks are not generous in their homes. They are extremely generous when you go to their homes and will give you the last bite of their food if you ask. If the opposite was true, I’m sure it would be something in the collective that people who live here share with one another.

This is just a premise based on many shared experiences of people living here, as is the “Non-Apology” thing.

Yes, there are Greeks who probably do apologize. I just have not been fortunate enough to see that with my own eyes yet.

http://www.fivelovelanguages.c.....ology.html

Secondly, I think it is more constructive to point out legein stand out as an individual who obviously has problems with me and more generally with black people, or foreigners or Jews or whatever “group” is the current target. He speaks entirely for himself not for the people I know or have come to know.

I did not expect an apology because legein cannot see what he said was insulting and hurtful, so it is obvious that he would resort to pointing back at me and calling me paranoid. He has accused me before of seeing racism where it doesn’t exist. Only two other people have done that before here and they were both (it turned out) self-confessed racists.

One of the defenses I have here is to ask people to get back to the topic of the post or to close comments if the discussion derails. In this case, because the post is about someone in a position of power being able to spread her hateful ideas to future teachers. I think this discussion is relevant and I am going to leave this one open for now as a place to discuss the issues.

Martin Baldwin-Edwards, I also dislike your generalisations of Greeks just as much as I dislike ANY generalisations. They are hurtful and serve no purpose but to deflect the real issues. If you were talking about the way the state operates that is one thing, or if you were talking about the extremist element here that is one thing as well. Or even the naivety of the issues in Greece as a whole, that would be something. I really do believe that this is the beginning of the discussion of racism in Greece and the racist attitudes that are on the rise here. I would like to offer here an opportunity for people to discuss those issues (because there are not many places where people can do that) in a way that they can ask questions and perhaps get some insight from those of us that experience racism firsthand. Without being written off from the start.

Legein, I do not include you in my wish to engage reasonable Greek people in discussion because I do not believe you are being reasonable. You seem to have your opinions set in stone and no amount of reasoning or explanation is going to help. Your comments are not helpful in the scheme of things because they keep referring back to you and much time and energy is being drawn towards yourself rather than the issues. It is perhaps my mistake to imagine that I could make you understand or that I could make a difference, but that’s me.