Via the Greek Helsinki Monitor
Where Europe Has Failed These Europeans
Interview with Thomas Hammarberg, Council of Europe Commissioner for Human Rights
Thomas Hammarberg was elected as the second Commissioner of Human Rights, by the Parliamentary Assembly on 5th of October 2005. He plays a crucial role in promoting the implementation of the conclusions and recommendations of the Human Rights system of the Council of Europe. On 16th of October 2007, Apostolis Fotiadis of Inter Press Service Europe discussed with him the key problems of Roma, one of the most discriminated groups in the EU.
How do you explain the persistent anti-Roma feeling that extends along Europe? Which are the sources of the problem and how can we address them?
I think it is difficult to define any rational legacy. They have been made scapegoats for problems of our societies. It is interesting to notice how from the moment a problem appears Roma discrimination includes this; for long people who could stand up and defend them have allowed an atmosphere that Roma are targeted as unwanted. It is an issue with long history as well. During the Nazi period more than half a million were exterminated and we never nominated an apology to them. They are like the rest from the past that we have not managed to defeat.
Do you think that the condition of Roma is deteriorating or improving around Europe?
I’m worried about it. There seems to be a change towards polarization. Unfortunately groups of people adopt a very anti-Roma discourse that leading politicians seem to tolerate. This is a quite unfortunate development because carelessness or indifference can sometimes legitimate. We should again plea to the politicians to be careful and stay with the side of the Roma than join in with any xenophobic tendency.
Is it easy to compare the treatment of Roma communities in different countries along the same region, for example between Greece, Romania and Bulgaria?
I deliberately avoid to whole discussion about comparing who is best. Many countries in the region are going through profound change while they emerge from the Soviet period, thus having different starting points. My picture is that Roma people are discriminated in every country. When it comes to employment, to health care, to real possibilities for political participation in elections or political structures the situation is problematic.
How could the problem of their political participation be addressed?
Rather much of the responsibility for this problem occurs from lack of interest or negative interest of political parties. Mainstream political parties have to become more open to Roma people; usually they are not. Take for example election campaigns that even candidates of major parties make xenophobic statements against the Roma instead of going to the Roma communities, listening to what they want and try to represent their views. Also the Roma themselves have to organized themselves and try to be better represented.
Should emphasis of their integration in the political life be given on the local or national level?
Both are important but it would be important now to focus on the local. Many important decisions affecting Roma are taken at this level. In some countries they have special reserved seats for Roma on local assemblies. In Slovenia they have one seat in each municipality that Roma live. In Romania they have a seat saved in the parliament. Though this is not the finest solution, it is something that should be tried.
With whom are you working with satisfactorily in Greece?
Most human rights NGOs send us information from time to time, especially the Greek Helsinki Monitor. We also work with the Greek Ombudsman’s Office.
How effective the intervention of the Council of Europe has been in protecting Roma’s rights in the case of evictions of Roma from many Greek municipalities?
I’m not sure that there has been any real change. I was in Patras just before the local election of September 2006. And it became clear that there had been an eviction that morning. I raised this with the authorities and written to them and pleaded for another look at this problem. I really hope now that the new government will review the policy about this. Also the local authorities should revise their policy when it comes to evictions. Some times eviction might be possible and necessary but must be done the right way and after alternative solution have been offered to the subjects.
What alternative ways the Council of Europe can utilize in order to adjust the effectiveness of Roma communities’ protection?
Choices of policies must follow certain procedures that pass through legal channels. Apart from this, additional political pressure at least to the permanent members of the Council of Europe might have considerable effects. They should realize that the Roma issue is one of the black sides of Europe and to take responsibility and go after their country members.
Is there any success case?
Yes, there are places that the housing problem is more or less resolved. In parts of Slovenia communities have been fairly positive in dealing with Roma. In the Scandinavian countries there are success cases. The experience is that when authorities and politicians have tried, though it takes a bit of money, it is possible to reach solutions.
Are there areas that you could improve the way you work on the Roma issues?
The important think for us is to know what is going on. Many times we don’t learn or information comes late. The European Roma Rights Center in Budapest helps a lot as well as NGOs. We begin now to develop a network so we learn faster. The key issue remains that we don’t manage to persuade the local authorities to deal with the problems of Roma.
Technorati: roma, Greece, Europe, roma rights, human rights, housing rights
