Racist Attacks
Published by deviousdiva October 29th, 2007 in Racism.There has been a dramatic rise in racist attacks in Greece over the last five years according to the Hellenic League of Human Rights. A rally was organised on October 21st (unfortunately I did not buy the Athens News last week and did not know about it) to protest a series of attacks on the Pakistani community in Rendi, Athens by a gang of anti-immigrant fascists. The league expressed deep concern about attacks on immigrants and minorities and condemned Greek law enforcement indifference. According to them, there is a complete lack of official data on racist violence.
From their 2007 annual report
Racist motivation is not investigated in practice. This makes it impossible to draw a clear pattern or trend. However, the number of violent incidents against immigrants and minorities that are reported by the press and non-governmental agencies, allow us to depict a generic, although not completely reliable, picture of the situation in Greece over the last years
Read the full article in the Athens News here
According to the article above:
the incident has spurred a wide discussion about the rise of racist violence in Greece
I was looking for some articles online about the attacks and I failed to find any. I am not a big fan of Greek television news (because of the shouting matches that seem to pass for discussions) so I might have missed the coverage. However, I am not aware of any wide discussion about racist violence in Greece. If I am missing something, please let me know in the comments (please include links).
Technorati: Greece, racism, racist, violence, minorities, immigrants, fascists
Alex by deviousdiva on June 4th, 2006
Annual Report by deviousdiva on May 16th, 2007
Blog against Racism by deviousdiva on May 12th, 2006
Hey DeviousDiva,
have you seen this article?
Greek Asylum Practices Criticized
Sadly enough, when supposedly good people use racial slurs thinking that it is not a racial slur, we have a long way to go.
Case in point. My nice neighbor still uses the word “ARAP..”
I had to explain to him that that is a very hateful word, and he thought it simply was like saying “Black” NO, I said, “MAVRO” is like saying black. In the States, African American is a proper term, but I guess I should ask what would be an acceptable term to describe a person of color who lives outside of America?
And in Greek, what could be a Greek word for a proper term to describe a person of color?
Can anyone way in? I’d like to correct the Greek people I know who are misled.
Thank you bint alshamsa, for the link. I will be posting it later today.
Hi George,
Thank you for your query. I am happy to see that some people are interested in having a discussion about this issue. I have always been ok with the use of “mavro” (”black” in english) but mainly because it is preferable to any other words used (like the one you mentioned). As far as I know there is no equivalent for people of colour in Greek which embraces people who do not consider themselves black.
This is an extremely important discussion that needs to take place here. We need the vocabulary before we can begin to educate.
It wasn’t that long ago that words which are unacceptable today were commonly used in England. Of course, racists will still use them but most people know how to refer to non-white people in a respectful and proper way.
It will be an ongoing discussion as some people are more comfortable with a particular word or phrase and others are not. But we do need to start it… so thank you for your question.
What do other people here think?
There was no coverage about this on the Greek news. I would have heard about it if there was. A total disgrace. What the Greeks need to realise is that its immigrants holding up their economy, like anywhere else. Immigrants here and the world over are taking the crap jobs no one else wants to do. Remove the bottom layer from a house of cards and the whole thing comes down. Stupidity knows no bounds.
What do you expect? When people invade a country, our country fight back. Face reality. We don’t want foreiegn invaders.
Anonymos (sic):
By your logic then, why did America, Australia, and UK allow Greek immigrants to clean our toilets, houses etc.,? In the USA alone, we have quite a few generations of Greeks who were maids, gardeners, etc in the recent past.
You are just lucky that other western societies did not treat you (INVADERS-YOUR WORD) the same way you treat them.
Anonymos (sic)
Your comment is hateful. Please get help.
No, no, “diva”, it is YOU who needs help. Urgently and desperately.
George said:”By your logic then, why did America, Australia, and UK allow Greek immigrants to clean our toilets, houses etc.,? In the USA alone, we have quite a few generations of Greeks who were maids, gardeners, etc in the recent past.”
Because they were IDIOTS! I’m an immigrant here in Australia. This country would have been great even if it never had seen a single Greek or Italian. Greeks or Italians were not a particularly major drain on Australia, but they DID affect its culture.
The reasons for allowing Greeks and Italians (among others) back in the “White Australia” days was because it was thought that they were racially and culturally (religiously) compatible. And because of this Greeks and Italians were able to integrate into Australian society fairly successfully. Nevertheless, the integration was hardly complete. Large numbers still harbour significant resentment against the “Anglo” majority.
Other racially and culturally more “distant” immigrants have proved to be an unmitigated disaster. Australia (US, Greece, ANYONE) has absoultely ZERO to gain from allowing the country to be swamped by Africans, Muslims or Asians. Well, the smart Asians like the Chinese are not so bad, but still, they will live in ethnic ghettoes and create irreparable divisions in society.
Mss immigration cannot be considered other than pure insanity.
It simply amazes me that a country like Greece, which is still capable of rising up in fury over a trivial issue like “Macedonia”, can remain so blind to an issue that if not stopped ASAP will eventually destory the entire Greek nation. This is simple math: is NO end to immigration is see, then its simply a logical extenstion that one day Greece will be a country with no more actual Greeks.
Diva, you might think you’re being “modern” and everything, but morons like you are quickly destroying thousands of years of Greek history. I hope you can see the light before it’s all too late.
This is a disgraceful attack and one can only hope the victims are not seriously hurt. However, this attack could have been avoided. Fortunately, the immigration issue is now being discussed openly i.e. how many migrants can Greece handle, what type of migrants, how can existing immigrants be integrated etc. Importantly, this discussion is not the domain of the Far Right anymore. Once the middle classes start chattering about immigrants at their dinner parties then we know things are going to change. And this change is happening all over Europe:
http://www.economist.com/world.....d=10193441
Also, the recent violence in France, where the protesters began to use arms against the police, will also put fear into the middle classes and legislaters. If people on this blog were really serious about discussing this issue, felt sympathy for future vicitms of attacks and wanted to enlighten people then this societal change should be discussed rather than dismissed as being racist. However, I can see no discussion. The lack of debate will spur more racist attacks causing increasing bitterness. I just hope people can bring themselves to at least hear and consider different points of view.
Legein, I’m personally FOR the discussion of the immigration issue. However, I know that a lot of the people who have been attacked and abused in Greece were LEGAL immigrants. Could you explain to me how you connect the two issues?
Georgia, I do not think the attackers, their accomplaces or the people that sit idly by ask the immigrants to check their papers whether they are legal or illegal. What is your point?
Until recently, the common position of anti-immigrant Greeks was that immigrants were illegally present in Greece. This is the point that Georgia makes: that most have legal status, but were still attacked.
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Insofar as discussions go, the idea that there is a maximum number of immigrants “that Greece can handle”, or “types of immigrant” is not based on any objective reality. Unfortunately, the article in the Economist that you link to, is full of errors, doubtful claims and misleading information. This is what happens when non-experts write about complex issues.
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So, in these specific cases of Greek violence against Pakistanis: what is supposed to be the explanation? I can think of a few:
(1) simple racial hatred, nurtured by right-wing propaganda
(2) anti-Muslim hate (traditional in Greece)
(3) disaffected, unemployed and alienated Greek hoodlums who like to beat up immigrants to feel better about themselves and also to blame the state of the economy on “them”
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Which one of these is worth defending? Or can you offer another better explanation of why this is happening?
Martin, with all due respect to the supposed inside knowledge that you purportedly have, it does not really matter whether there is an objective reality or not (your three explanations do not seem to be scientific). The voters will decide whether they feel comfortable with the present and future situation. If they do not like it, it does not matter whether your statistics are flawless, they will reject it by demanding the mainstream political parties make changes or they will vote for smaller parties which will force the mainstream parties to make changes. Unfortunately, you do not seem to recognize the will of the people and the democratic process. The discourse is changing. Rather than make irresponsible comments try and understand and learn.
On Georgia’s point, I do not think the attackers ask for the victims legal status. They simply attack migrants who do not look Greek.
legein: I note the following comments from you:
“Rather than make irresponsible comments try and understand and learn.”
“you do not seem to recognize the will of the people and the democratic process”
“your three explanations do not seem to be scientific”
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I am wondering what you study or have studied in Panteion University, because I have never read such a pile of shit from any of my students. Do you actually think that your understanding of anything surpasses mine? I asked you to justify the violent attacks on immigrants and you talk about “the democratic process”: are you an idiot? Are you suggesting that if Karamanlis makes choices you personally disapprove of, that you have the right to use physical violence? That is not democracy, by any definitions: it is violent revolution.
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I offered 3 perfectly valid scientfic explanations [who are you to tell me what is scientific or not??] and asked you for any others. Voting has nothing to do with extreme physical violence, and if you were old enough to have lived through the Greek civil war you would know that. So you offer me voting???
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The fact is that if immigrants left Greece tomorrow, the country would fall apart. This is true for most of Europe and also the USA. Your racist rhetoric cannot alter reality, and I suppose that nobody else here is impressed by specious references to democracy in order to defend the illegal and nasty racial violence that is referred to in this blog.
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You are a racist who tries to hide it. I have no more to say to you.
Martin, apologies again but your responses do not seem to be very scholarly or academic. I am not going to get into what I have studied but I suspect I have better tertiary qualifications than you judging by your hyperbolic and polemical arguments.
You need to read more carefully rather than read what you want into anothers argument. Have you read about cognitive errors?
Excuse me, legein: how many professorships have you held? How many academic articles and books have you published? If you care to check what the entire world thinks of my published work, you can find some of the references on GoogleScholar. Do you think that a piece of paper from some college makes you into an arbiter of scholarship, in some magical way? Your responses to my questions are disgraceful and unacceptable in civilised society and have no relation to academic scholarship. Your arrogance beggars belief, although it is not the first time I have encountered it with superficially educated Greek people.
Legein: You first wrote that “this attack could have been avoided” and then you wrote about the discussion of the immigration issue (legal/illegal immigration). From this I gathered that you connect the two matters (racist attacks/illegal immigration) and I asked you to explain this connection. From your second answer I see that I’ve probably misunderstood you, in which case I apologize.
I am closing this thread because it is going nowhere.
But I will have the last word.
Personal attacks will be deleted.
Comments that call another person here is stupid, ignorant, filthy or any derogatory adjectives will be deleted.
Make your point, disagree with an opinion, argue about the issues but DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT insult, put-down, threaten or belittle the person who wrote the comment.
I have been subjected to vile insults and threats here and I have NEVER, not even once, retaliated by doing the same. My only weapon is to delete you or edit your comments. You cannot delete or edit me but you do have a weapon that you can use that does not involve abuse. You can walk away and never visit this blog again. And I am absolutely fine with that. No-one is forcing to read my opinions. Thank you.