Annual Report
Published by deviousdiva May 16th, 2007 in Racism.The HLHR (The Hellenic League for Human Rights) and KEMO (Research Centre for Minority Groups) annual report for 2007 has been published. It is entitled “Racism and Discrimination against Immigrants and Minorities in Greece: the State of Play”
The landscape of immigration, minority and anti-discrimination policies in Greece is largely marked by issues of recognition and of articulation of long term state initiatives and planning, as well as by shortcomings, critical social exclusion, racism phenomena and macro-political challenges.
This paper aims to expose an overview of the situation, the main trends, as well as the problems and challenges concerning immigrants, minorities and discrimination issues in Greece.
Both websites have a Greek and English version.
Technorati: racism, discrimination, greece, immigration, minorities
The traitor who heads the Greek Helsinki monitor is perhaps one of the most dangerous people in Greece today. He has been promoting hatred of Macedonian Greeks who quite justly want to preserve their own specific heritage and culture, hatred of Greek Cypriots (such as myself), because they ‘dared’ to elect President Papadopoulos, a hardline patriotic person who refuses to capitulate to demands without a quid pro quo (and justly so), I heard from Vima that this ‘progressive’ stated he ‘hated and despised Greeks for their patriotism’ (he hates the white race too). This ‘human rights advocate’ is most probably involved in various efforts to undermine Greek territorial sovereignty over the Aegean as well. I challenge you, as someone who constantly posts his hateful, anti-greek garbage, to a debate.
Nick, I have some questions…
“The traitor who heads the Greek Helsinki monitor”
A traitor to what exactly? I am unclear as to why he is a traitor rather than someone whose opinions differ to yours?
Where do you get the impression that he “hates the white race” ?
As far as I know he has not said/posted anything about Greek sovereignty over the Aegean and, as you state, that is just your suspicion of GHM. Do you have any texts or links or information to back that up?
I post information from GHM that is widely available and often written in conjuction with international organisations. We are not talking about a wild fringe group here but about organisations defending human rights.
The vast majority of people that read this blog (and it is just a blog after all) do not see the anti-greek stance that you speak about. The vast majority of people that read this blog care that Greece follows certain fundemental laws laid down by national and international bodies. I don’t think anyone here questions Greek sovereignty in Greece, Or Greece’s own specific heritage and culture. Or any of the things that Greece can be (quite rightly) proud of.
We DO question the mis-treatment of people, minorities, individuals, groups, ethnicities, races within Greece. A place that prides itself on being an open, democratic society.
Let me just be clear and straightforward for a minute. I love Greece. I wouldn’t have stayed if I didn’t. Something intangible and wonderful keeps me here. But I still care about my fellow human beings who are not being treated in a way that should make Greece proud. People being kept in containers because they crossed the border. Roma being evicted illegaly. Minority Greeks being disregarded and ignored. Let alone those who are non-Greek who seek a life, work, equality here.
So my main question I suppose is, what do you want to debate? Why not put your questions out there and see who responds? And how they respond? You might find that some people agree with you. You might find some don’t. But at least you would have posed some real questions.
To be honest with you, what I (personally) find most dangerous are people who accuse without grounds, without debate, without questions and without an open mind.
Look, I have no problem with raising issues relating to the Roma, racism against them or others etc… That’s not my problem, in fact it is probably beneficial to Greece that such issues come out into the open and are challenged by introspection. But raising the issue of the Muslim minority in Thrace ignores a crucial point, they have specific rights under Lausanne and the Constitution. They even get a quota of people into higher education, compare this to the treatment of the Greeks of Constantinople, who arent even there anymore! The ‘Macedonian’ Slavs are also an issue I don’t sympathize with, they can call themselves whatever they like, but they can’t expect a state to recognize them as ‘Macedonians’ when there is absolutely no historical continuity (linguistic, cultural or otherwise), between them and the Ancient Macedonians, it’s absurd. It’s like teaching creationism in schools, it goes against all logic of historical scholarship.
As for your other issues, I have already said I agree with you raising them. But the Muslims in Thrace and the Slavs in Greek Macedonia are two issues I will never sympathize with for obvious reasons.
I will answer you at some point. Just not today and probably not this weekend. I am busy and will not be around all that much. (sick kid, tired and trying to find a place to live etc etc)
If you lay out your questions, rather than saying “I will never sympathize” I would be more than happy to listen and then try and answer. I am sure others would be too.
By the way, this report had nothing to do with the Greek Helsinki Monitor (GHM)!
Interesting how DD never answers the tough questions.
Hephaestos, I allowed your comment here today because I think it points out two very basic issues between us that I believe we should recognise before we have any chance of discussion.
1) I spent a good deal of time answering Nick’s comment. There are no questions in his post. No question marks at all. I answered it with specific questions and I notice that you are not calling for him to answer them.
He wrote back with a lot more civility about his feelings but again no questions. Only statements about issues that he has no sympathy for.
I am waiting for a question. If you are asking me to answer statements like
“But the Muslims in Thrace and the Slavs in Greek Macedonia are two issues I will never sympathize with for obvious reasons”
that is not going to happen. And definitely not just because you demand it. I want to be very clear about what I am answering before I get involved. As far as I can tell, Nick had a problem with something other than this post. I answered as well as I could and asked him some actual questions about his post. That is my style. Really, if you don’t like my approach to people I don’t understand why you keep coming back? (you and I know that this is by no means your only comment since I banned you)
2)I have a life outside this blog. If you noticed, my reason for not answering the second comment earlier was to do with other things going on in that life. I wish you could respect that. As I said
“lay out your questions, rather than saying “I will never sympathize” I would be more than happy to listen and then try and answer. I am sure others would be too”
People who read this blog are wide and varied. If you actually did ask some questions you might get an answer. I say might because as I think I’ve said to you before, sometimes people respond, sometimes they don’t. For a multitude of reasons. I have been constantly surprised by the issues that prompt discussions and those that don’t.
Please do not demand answers to blanket statements. I believe it is better to try and engage people and find out what the problem is. As I saw with Nick the real issue was not about the human rights organisation he railed against but about Muslims in Thrace and Slavs in Greek Macedonia. Two things he did not mention in his first comment.
Perhaps you can actually ask the “tough questions” and wait and see how people respond rather than dismissing everyone for not answering your statements. They/I might not answer but at least you could try.