Guest Blogger 3
Published by deviousdiva March 27th, 2007 in Guest Bloggers.The next in the series of guest blogger posts from Abravenel, this time with a personal piece about growing up with anti-Semitism in Greece. Regular readers of this blog know that I am not keen on swearing or obscenities in articles but in this case, it was important to keep the text intact. You will see why…
HOW I LEARNED WHAT MALAKAS MEANS
-
Malakas (Greek: nom. μαλάκας, voc. and acc. μαλάκα, μαλακισμένε, fem. μαλάκω, μαλακισμένη) is a slang word, whose literal translation is wanker but the register of the term varies widely between its America/British English usage and its Greek usage. A more appropriate rendering covers a much broader spectrum of applications, including both English equivalents of asshole or jerk or dick or son of a bitch, and the contrasting friend or pal or dude, depending on the context.
I grew up in a rather poor part of my city which still maintained the populist image of the neighborhood/γειτονιά typical of the Greek cities in the past decades. It was a time where parents were a bit less anxious and maybe a bit more naïve and let their kids roam about freely and play in the open spaces that still existed, (the Greek term is not translatable but certainly will invoke memories for the Greek readers: αλάνες).
Each day my best friend N. would come by my house and yell my name for me to come down. Then we would join the others in patrolling the neighborhood, playing soccer or all the other things kids do when they can simply enjoy a kid’s life. My family lived there since the ‘60s and everyone knew everyone and I can’t say that I was ever singled out as a Jew though we were the only Jewish family within sight. Hell, some of the kids were sometimes envious of my best friend N. because I was Jewish! Why? Because whenever an orthodox priest would pass by he’d take me to kiss his hand in sign of respect, as all the kids would do though in my case I was told to change my name to Manolis and avoid telling I’m a Jew; I didn’t mind since I thought of it like some kind of game. But the priest, since I was younger than the rest of the group and apparently was fond of me, sometimes gave me small wooden crosses which I would promptly give it to my friend who’d boast about it to the others making me proud of being able to make my friend happy.
As kids of course there would always be some strife and despite the usual “killer of Christ” or “Judas” that somebody would throw at me I wasn’t targeted for my Jewishness or at least I was too little to understand it, though of course I was always considered different. Although these remarks were of undeniable anti-Semitic origin, they were tossed at me the same way I was accused in my school of being a supporter of a specific soccer team while everybody else was supporting other teams – just another way between small kids to obtain victory over their companion. In the end of the day I would return to my folks asking them what my friends meant but I must admit that whatever explanations my parents made up mustn’t have been very convincing because I kept asking them each time. But the next day would arrive and we’d make friends again and begin all over , so I didn’t pay too much attention to these outbursts.
The fact though that these remarks are the seeds for the future conscious and dangerous racism to be found in adults is another question which deserves a post of it’s own. Also I prefer not to delve as to what was said in their homes about us, that was leading small kids to repeat mechanically “killer of Christ” and “Judas” – the same homes that I would visit occasionally to pick up my friends or return to pick a ball. These talks, unfortunately or fortunately, were beyond my ears and it was hard to imagine something less of an idyllic situation then.
Still I remember clearly one day, when I was seven years old, coming out the door of my home to find a big graffiti with capital letters in blue paint: “ΕΒΡΑΙΕ ΜΑΛΑΚΑ” (JEW ASSHOLE). I was delighted by the fact that somebody had climbed over the 2mt. wall that surrounded our house and written something about us even though I didn’t understand it’s meaning fully, so I called my grandparents out which swiftly took me inside without answering any questions. I remember that when my dad returned he kept staring at it, while I was standing beside him asking him what it meant. At this point I should say “malàka” (asshole) is the same word as “malakà” (softly) and only the accentuation changes. Well, apparently I was able to read but I hadn’t been corrupted, as I am now, because I remember I kept reading “jew softly” and I couldn’t understand why they had written that or what it meant. The letters were big and judging by their size they weren’t written by a kid but by an adult. In any case I was ordered not to ask in the neighborhood who did it, which I disobeyed only to find out that my friends were hesitant to talk about it. I don’t recall how my parents reacted the following days or weeks but I do remember that; my efforts to talk about it now resulted in their firm denial to “dig old stories” and I “should stop thinking these things”. In any case, my dad got a bucket of paint and promptly painted over even though some blue shades were still visible underneath. Of course no police was involved since there was little for them to do, though I have serious doubts that they’d actually do something even if they indeed had leads. In any case hate speech is not considered really a crime in Greece and is not actively combated today as multiple examples prove and this was even much truer then.
This episode got me thinking some years afterwards. How would I react if I had a family? I see much worse graffiti in the walls of the universities and this “jew asshole” frankly seems quite a flimsy attempt to frighten us; though we should keep in mind that the times then, were less verbally violent, so it isn’t such a low profile attack as one would be led to believe judging by today’s standards. Still I’ve been called much worse things and even now I don’t think this graffiti necessarily implied physical violence. But still would I take the chance to dismiss these fears so easily if I had children? Would I let them go out again this easily, while knowing that a person/persons felt it was worth the trouble getting a bucket of blue paint, jumping in the night a 2mt wall, risk being seen by the neighbors and get caught by cops as a possible burglar just cause he thought Jews was such a bad thing? How much fear would my parents have when seeing me not getting back home early? And how much fear would they have me getting beat up or similar? Nowadays parents are afraid of a possible stranger who might harm their kids, in this case they knew that there was certainly someone out there who hated us.
This is part of the reason why the Jews in Greece are so silent though we must distinguish the response of individuals and the official response of the Jewish Community by the mouths of the local Jewish Communities or the Central Jewish Board. Whereas the latter is concerned there are more aspects to consider which concern the traditional inwardness of jews, the greek society in general and many other things which deserve a post of their own; I must remark that I often personally find myself in disagreement with their silence though I understand the reasons behind this decision. But as this djudeospanish proverb, I mentioned before, says: If a rock hits the glass then the glass will break. If the glass hits the rock, still it’s the glass that breaks.
At some point my family moved to a newer house and I lost tracks of my old friends though I occasionally have encountered a couple of them and shared a story or two. No trauma involved and I still remember fondly my old neighbourhood when I visit it even if my house together with many others gave way to modern block of flats. Eventually I grew up and learned what “malàkas” means and even grew fond of using it like many Greeks do. But I’ll never forget my first contact with it painted with blue.
Technorati: Jews, Jewish history, Greece, guest bloggers
So, the story goes like this: You had a good childhood, good friends who didn’t care about your religion, and an asshole, too ashamed or afraid to show the face, painted “jew asshole” in a wall outside your house, with capital letters in blue paint, end of story. I’m sorry, but this is not a story about “anti-semitism in Greece”.
Caramelo, I find your remarks on this post very insensitive and rude. The story is about a piece of graffitti and how it affected the writer as a seven year old. I do not understand why you do not see this as a story of anti-semitism in Greece because it quite clearly is. We are not obliged each time we write our personal stories to cover ALL incidents and examples of what happens to us.
For all those who wonder about what we at Greek Helsinki Monitor believe is tolerance of intolerance (rather than of difference) and mainstreaming of racism (rather than of combatting racism) in Greece follow three texts.
The one says plainly “Death to the Jews” (and actually is “lively shooting” if you go to the Greek neo-Nazi site)
http://www.hypervorea.net/ante.....3b27ad0c0c

The other one is a well-selling T-shirt in that Neo-Nazi enterprise but also in Monastiraki as I am told - and then one wonders why the shameful anti-Turkish incidents happened in Karaiskaki Stadium last Saturday, during the football game where Turkey trounced Greece 4-1.
http://www.logxi.com/mplouzes/mplouzes.php

The third one is available in Greek only and was published on 10-3-2007 in the LAOS weekly “Alpha1″ - it is a remix of a good hip-hop song “Kalimera Ellada” by “Going Through” and contains all sorts of anti-Albanian, anti-Pakistani, anti-Muslim and generally anti-immigrant trash. It has been circulated via mobiles too and at one point it was also available in You-Tube. There is a group allegedly called MAD that produced it. One can find it in the Neo-Nazi Pathfinder group Kynaigeiros (the text at http://clubs.pathfinder.gr/kyn.....;read=3919 and the “song” at http://clubs.pathfinder.gr/get.....lder=40438)
Καλημέρα Ελλάδα,
Γ…ώ την Αλβανία
Τους δώσαμε φαΐ
Και ελληνική παιδεία
Όλα τ´ Αλβανάκια
Πιάνουν χώρο στα θρανία
Και στα Τ.Ε.Ι. τα Ελληνάκια
Μένουν έξω από την Εστία
Δεν πρέπει να μείνουν,
δε με νοιάζει κι αν πεινάνε
Μου τη σπάει που βρωμάνε
Μου τη σπάει όπως μιλάνε
Να πετάξουν, να φύγουν,
στο διάολο να πάνε
Υπάρχουν Έλληνες να δουλέψουν, να φάνε.
Καλημέρα Ελλάδα,
Ψηφίστε τώρα νόμους
Όχι, σ´ Αλβανούς
Και στους ξένους παρανόμους
Κοιτάξτε Ελλάδα και λίγο τα παιδιά σου
Αλβανέ τράβα στο διάολο, εκεί είναι η μεριά σου
Να μου ζήσεις Ελλάδα
Και αυτούς να «σβήσεις»
Κι όταν αυτοί χτυπάνε, την πόρτα να τους κλείσεις
Δεν θέλω στα διόδια καφέ-πορτοκαλάδα
Εμείς έχουμε «Ιλιάδα» ΚΑΙ
Γι´ αυτούς Καιάδα.
Ελλάδα, συγγνώμη, αν θες
ν´ άλλάξω γνώμη
Πρέπει και εσύ να μάθεις να αγαπάς
Πάψε να με παιδεύεις και να με
Κοροϊδεύεις
Και τα όνειρά μου, Ελλάδα, μη σκορπάς
Καλημέρα, Ελλάδα,
Εσύ κι οι Πακιστανοί σου
Για τους μουσουλμάνους
«γράφεις» τους χριστιανούς σου
Τζάμι να χτίσουν θέλουν
Κι εσύ γουστάρεις
Συγγνώμη, Ελλαδίτσα μου,
Συγγνώμη, αλλά «τρομπάρεις»
Κύριοι υπουργοί, κύριοι Βουλευταί
Κι εσύ μ…κα, ξεκολ..ρη Αλβανέ
Δεν πα´ να γαμ..τε
Στ´αρ..α μου σας γράφω,
Αφού σας ψήφισα καλά να πάθω! Ελλάδα σημαίνει,
«Πατρις, Οικογένεια, Θρησκεία»
Γ…ώ τους Αλβανούς,
Γ…ώ και την Αλβανία
Δεν είμαι ρατσιστής
Έλληνας μόνο είμαι
Ανώτερος από όλους νιώθω
Κι έτσι σίγουρα είναι
Είχαμε Παρθενώνα
Κι αυτοί ζούσαν στις σπηλιές,
Μανδύες εμείς φοράγαμε
Κι αυτοί προβιές.
Αλέξανδρο είχαμε
Και Λεωνίδα και Περικλή
Κι αυτοί ήταν ξυπόλυτοι
Χωρίς γραμματική
Ελλάδα, συγγνώμη, αν θες
Ν´ αλλάξω γνώμη
Πρέπει κι συ να μάθεις
Ν´ αγαπάς (τα παιδιά σου, Ελλάδα)
Πάψε να με παιδεύεις
Και να με κοροϊδεύεις
Και τα όνειρά μου, Ελλάδα μην σκορπάς.
Diva, I hope you are following events in Russia and France very closely.
As for the Jew sob story - spare us.
Hephaestos,
You are truly a pathetic waste of protein. If you didn’t want to know about this person’s experience then why did you take the time to read it? No one forced you. Why don’t you spare us and bugger off.
My own story is almost the opposite. My mother’s family were Jews from near the Bulgarian town of Sozopol. The rabbi and others were murdered by “comodjis” bands during the “ilinden uprising.” The Jews then mostly left in slighly later pogroms in the 20’s. My mother met my father in Greece. His family was from a town east of Salonica where my mom also had relations. The town was mostly Greeks but they had a wonderful life there. In the 1940’s the Bulgarians occupied their town and on passover night arrested nearly every Jew and deported them to the death camps. Many in my family died as they were transported by Bulgarian troops on Bulgarian trains out of Greece, through Bulgara and onto the camps. The town priest (greek orthodox), the mayor and other Greeks were beaten mercilessly by the Bulgaria troops for protesting the arrest of the town’s Jews.
The Bulgarians as it turned were the most enthusastic supporters of the holocaust in areas they annexed. The highest percentage of killings of Jews in all of Europe occured in Bulgarian occupied areas.
Ironically Bulgaria is given high marks during the holocaust despite their proactive and enthusaistic participation of it in areas they occupied, when of all the countries in Europe the Greeks resisted the Axis and the Holocaust the most.
In another anecdote my maternal great uncle was killed in the Greek civil war by of all things communist guerrillas who of all things took issue with a Bulgarian and Greko-phonic Jew not accepting the idea that he needed to consider himself “Macedonian”!
I recently read an article in the forward condemning Greece. It was a bunch of junk. the author accused some Greek officials and yet forgot to note that the Chief rabbi in Salonica did the exact same things which would have put it into perspective.
Reading the Helsinki notes above, I find it hyperbolic and lacking context. As anyone from Israel can tell you, similar things are said, sprayed written in newspapers about the Arabs (eg death to the Arabs is written in grafitti often) all the time.
There is also a very shallow understanding about language derived from 2000-3000 years of very specific otherness and contrast between Greeks and Jews that is all over both groups religious historic and nationalist traditions! Literate people were either a “Greek” or a “Jew” for a few thousand years and they also commercially competed in various empires. Many Jews became Greek especially in places like Alexandria. Reviling things Greek and Greeks is certainly more common among many Jews than visa versa!
EG Children get hand outs during Hanukkah in the Us and Israel that say things about “Greeks” that if reversed would be cited as Antisemitic.
Certainly the issue of Yeshivas students spitting on Greek Orthodox seminarians in Jerusalem has become a widespread thing and the Israeli authorities aren’t doing anything about it.
So I do applaud the author for his story. It’s truth which I do not doubt does not mean one should draw conclusions about a whole country when the opposite might be true
COMMENT DELETED BY DEVIOUS DIVA.
We would like to highlight Abravanel’s point about Greek Jews not speaking out about anti-Semitism.
It is true and due to the fact that wehn they do that they stand alone, as mainstream Greek society does not come to their support, while occasionally there is a backlash.
In fact in the past year the Central Jewish Council (KIS) has joined prosecutor initiated criminal complaints against neo-Nazis (including Hitler-admirer Plevris). The latter hit back with counter legal actions, asking even for the banishment of Jewish religion as racist! And they found supporters in the name of freedom of expression (!!!) in mainsteram press that has however never condemned the Holocaust denial, Protocols of the Elders of Zion espousing, and violent anti-Semitic positions of the Neo-Nazis.
It is also true that in the past two years KIS has strongly condemned anti-Semitism in Greece and contributed to a realted report of the European Jewish Congress. The fact that this not known is also indicative of how Jews are treated by the media in Greece (which otherwise have no problem occasioanlly disseminate anti-Semitic hate.
I’d like to add my thoughts to this debate. First of all, I’d like to say that anti-semitism is a fact of life in Greece, the graffiti I seen with my own eyes, jokes cracked by teen students in my class about Jews and soap plus the endlessly racist programmes on the local TV channels all are testement to this.
Secondly, why is it that any Jewish institution, be it museum, cemetery or school here in Thessaloniki needs the kind of protection usually associated with banks or military facilities if such sentiments do not exist?
Finally, Tomcat, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a feminazi deathcamp? have you?
Hephaestos, if you have to come here and try and rile me, why don’t you just come out and say what you mean?
Better still, just don’t bother.
BTW, sorry Craig, I don’t know why all your comments are going into moderation. I will look into it when I get a chance.
Anyone up to doing a translation of the racist song that Panayote posted?
And we still can’t say that there is rampant racism in Greece?
DD, thank you for continuing to highlight the conditions for minorities in Greece. Even though there are people like Caramelo, Hephaestos, and Tomcat in the world–and they are drawn to posts about Jews like dung beetles to yak shit–some of us don’t need to wait until we are the victims in order to recognize when someone is being mistreated. No one should have to grow up dealing with such hatred.
I don’t think I understand the first post by ‘Panayote’.
I checked out all of the sites he linked to and was shocked by what I found. The slogans, views, avators etc, all disgusting.
BUT I do believe if you go looking for right wing sites on the internet, you’ll obviously find them. Those sites are extreme right rubbish and they’ll always exist due to the internet being an open forum for people like that.
This is the bit I’m maybe not understanding though, I don’t believe those kinds of sites are ‘mainstream’. They are extreme right and as we all know, if you go looking at neo-nazi sites, you’ll find neo nazi views.
I think it’s like searching for extreme left communist views and websites and then saying that’s mainstreaming communism.
I’m completely open to the fact that I’m probably not getting the intended meaning and would welcome someone (Panayote perhaps?) explaining a little further to me?
In other countries such neo-Nazi crap gets immediately condemned by the mainstream and often prosecuted by authorities.
The good-Turk-is-a-dead-Turk T-shirt is available in Monastiraki which is no neo-Nazi hangout place. And with such shirts and ideas people go on doing what they did last Saturday in the football game.
While the horrific racist hip-hop was published in Karatzaferis’ paper and he is treated as mainstream in Greece as you know. Let alone that it also circulated among youngsters as a ringtone with no one reacting.
Also we will be grateful if someone translates that song in English so as we can sedn it around the non-Greek world.
I’ll translate it, just give me a day.
Bless you for including this post. As a Jewish non-Greek resident of Greece for more than 7 years, I have experienced this kind of treatment first hand. I have made it a personal mission to visit every synagogue, whether functional or not, and interviewed every Jewish Greek I could find all over the country, particularly those who were in Greece during the second World War. Fear was the overriding theme. Yes, Craig, the security to enter the street where each synagogue stands is enormously high. I almost did not pass muster on a couple of occasions on the High Holy Days, as part of the questioning by the police involved stating the occupations of the children of prominent Jewish synagogue members. I have been checked for horns in the Mani, told by 50 year old Greek men that their mothers did not approve of a friendship (not a love affair) with a Jewish woman, and denied work opportunities based on my religious orientation. I saw the graffiti during the 2004 Olympics which paid tribute to Nazi propaganda and I worked, unsuccessfully, to get it removed. I have been witness to the desecration of Holocaust memorials in various parts of Greece, when the Jewish population has stated that they “didn’t want to make waves.” What is the answer? This is a homogenous society which does not want to acknowledge or include religions other than their own. There is one word in Greek, Hevraia, which connotates Jew, Hebrew,and Isreali - we are not each all of these. Case in point, the declarations of the mayor of Athens, before the election in October and during the Lebanese-Israeli war: “If you wash a Jew, your soap you will ruin.” These kinds of statements are “pooh-poohed” by the Greek public in general. Please don’t say that anti-semitism does not exist in Greece, or is only a factor of some political parties/newspapers. Also look to the response of some journalists after 9/11.
Thank you Craig, for offering a translation. I think it’s important that people realise what is making the rounds in “normal” circles in Greece. [What a classic piece of nonsense from tomcat that was. Thank you for responding]
Panayote, that is an important point you make. Those racist tshirts and songs are openly available and NOTHING is said or done about it. The tagline of this blog sums it up for me and many others who are extremely concerned by this lack of condemnation.
“The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing”
Thank you very much Anon for sharing your thoughts and experiences here and welcome to the blog. I hope you will continue to participate in the discussions here.
Bint, thank you for your constant support.
I would just like to take this opportunity to thank Abravenel again for his post. It takes courage to speak out against injustice and I will continue to support people who do just that.
I am posting the pictures from the sites Panayote pointed to.
This avatar reads “Death to Jews”
This t-shirt reads ” The only good Turk is a dead one”
Since we are at it here is more disgusting crap:
1. Yesterday Mikis Theodorakis after telling that one should wash his moith before uttering the name of the President or the Archbishop, went on to say he asked Christodoulos that the teaching of the Old Testament be removed from school as it says that Israel will dominate and annihilate its enemies, whihc cannot be said today when it does what it does in the Middle East with the help of Rice and Bush; the Archbishop told him that this cannot happen for canonical rasons as the New Testament supports the Old Testament. (Today’s To Vima page 23)
2. Last Saturday at the notorious football game “fans” were giving the Nazi salute undeterred (To Vima page 5). You may know what happened yesterday with one hooligan dead.
3. I was ent an article by an academic (economist) in the University of Ioannina opposing the new history book for the sixth grade inter alia as the work of pseud-Greeks, willing or unwilling agents of international Zionism, implementing the notorious (and falso) anti-Greek statement of Henry Kissinger, also agent of international Zionism. All that he says is a proof that the Protocols of the Eledrers of Zion are true. (Proina Nea Ioanninon 1 March 2007, by Assistant Professor Dimitrios Hatzinikolaou).
Olympiakos neo-Nazi fan club “Misfits”
And also this
PAOK neo-Nazi club Northerners
from the excellent article in Ta Nea 31 March 2007
http://ta-nea.dolnet.gr/print_.....&aa=1
Oh I forgot to mention that on 25 March the Bishop of Argolida Iakovos said that the history book is …the work of international Zionism. See Alpha at http://www.alphatv.gr/index.as.....8;cat_id=7
COMMENT DELETED BY DEVIOUS DIVA
Here is the song translation. I can’t see this is the most pleasant job I’ve ever done. I asked one of my students to help me and he confirmed what I feared that many kids have this CD.
“Good morning Greece
F**k Albania.
We gave them food
and a Greek education
All the Albanian kids take up school places
and the Greek kids can’t get into college
They shouldn’t stay
I don’t care if they go hungry
It bugs me they way they smell
It bugs me they way how they talk
They should go, they should leave
Let them go to hell
There are Greeks who want to work, to eat
Good morning Greece
Vote for laws now
No to Albanians
No to illegal aliens
Look at Greece for a while and your children
Albanian, go to hell, there’s where you belong.
May you outlive me, Greece
and wipe “them” out
When they knock, close the door
I don’t want coffee or orangeade at the tolls
We have the Iliad
and they have nothing
Greece, sorry if you want me
to change my mind
But You too have to learn to love
Stop labouring against me
and kidding me
Don’t scatter my dreams, Greece
Good morning, Greece
You and your Pakistanis
Because of the Muslims, You don’t give a damn about Christians and
They want to build them mosques
and you fancy that
Sorry, poor little Greece
but you’re just jerking off
Mr Minister, Mr MPs
and you wa***er, f**ing Albanian
Didn’t I tell you to f**k off?
I don’t give a flying f**k about you
Since I voted for you, serves me right, Greece means
“Fatherland, family, church”
F**k Albanians
F**k Albania
I’m not a racist
Just a Greek
I feel superior to everyone
and sure I am
We had the Parthenon
when they lived in caves
We wore togas
when they wore sheep skins
We had Alexander
Leonidas and Peraklis
when they were barefoot and illiterate
Greece, forgive me if you
want me to change my mind
but you too need to learn to love
your kids, Greece
Stop labouring against me
and kidding me
Don’t scatter my dreams, Greece”
Feel free to “improve” the translation as I’m not sure on a few points.
DD I think anti-Semitic and anti-Christian bigots like Hephaestos have no place here, there are enough hate sites for him
DD, did you get the translation?
Thanks for taking the time to translate this horrible “song”. It couldn’t have been a pleasant thing to do.
I am saddened that it would seem that so many kids have this or at least know it.
Can we say it now? There is a problem with racism in Greece.
First I’d like to thank DD for publishing this even though it did have a swear or two. This kind of interest in matters out of our strict personal interest is what gives hope to this society.
To the main course now…This article is not strictly about antisemitism in Greece but simply talks about my first real experience with the phenomenon in a way that it was far more traumatic for my parents than me who was too small to understand. It also gives some insights as to why the greek jewish community remains stubbornly silent. The whole phenomenon unfortunately is far too large to be dealt in a single post.
For those who feel that the whole phenomenon is being overestimated there are far too many examples to be brought forward and time permitting they shall. But I severely doubt that these people will get convinced in any case.
The problem isn’t only the extreme right sites Panayote Dimitra’s pointed out but the fact that these views find their way into mainstream media. When bigtime politicians, showbiz people say these things then personally I find more disturbing the complete lack of reaction rather than the things itself. I don’t care if the mayor of Athens councilmen paraphrase the local say “even if you wash the jew, your soap will ruin” but I do care that none among PASOK or Nea Dimokratia stand up to condemn this hate speech!
DD says that there is a problem with racism in Greece. May I slightly shift the center weight of the problem? In France we still have LePen or in Italy the LegaNord, same way we have LAOS here. The problem isn’t only racism in Greece but the fact that nobody is doing anything about it, while in these countries there is a vivid opposition against the values these parties represent. Not even the traditional enemy of the fascist organisations, the communist party, speaks up; and how it could speak when it’s members say exactly the same things or are protagonists in offending Holocaust memorials in Greece! This kind of behaviour affects all kinds of minorities in Greece, including the disabled, immigrants, the turkish/moslem minority in Thrace, slav speaking greeks and (often neglected) women. This lack of social opposition is what lets these criminal behaviours to establish themselves as the mainstream values of our society and even though many deny it, they reflect the personal values of each one of us who does nothing to change this.
Exactly Abravanel. As my tagline says…
“The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing”
Glad to see you are back and thank you for provoking a new discussion.
One more picture from last week’s football game
OMG! Just in the first comment, to be able to say that painting “Jew Asshole” on a house is not an indication of anti-semitism in Greece is mind boggling. What? Did this person mean to be ironic? To say that most Jews are very nice, but only this house had a Jew Asshole? Why bring up someones religion and ethnicity if it is not a part of the hate. And there are other indicators, the fact that the perpetrator knew he could get away with it, the fact that the family knew they would get no justice and didn’t bother to notify the police, the fact that the other people and children when asked if they knew about it seemed uncomfortable to talk. If Greeks were not anti-semitic then the family would have reported and everyone Abravanel questioned as a child would have condemned what had happened to his family immediately and vehemently. They would have said they want to see the person arrested and to pay for his crime. Even without hate crime laws, I’m sure that it is not ok in Greece to trespass or ruin someone else’s property. If this kind of thing was unacceptable in the larger society it would be worth it just to have his name in the paper so that everyone could spit on him when he passes. This story makes it apparent that no one thought anything like that was possible. Why if the society is not anti-semitic is it impossible for the family to get support and justice?
DD, You tag line and mine are very similar. Mine is Martin Luther King Jr. “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
Hi Donna, great to see you here and thank you for your comment. This post managed to bring out a fair bit of ignorance. But that always happens here when Jewish issues are mentioned. It’s very horrible but sadly, utterly predictable.
Another image from the football match.
Actually quite a few greeks believe that they are racially immune to racism. Now THAT is mind-boggling.
Eseis toy paratiritirioy eiste adelfes kai epeidh xrimatodotiste apo ton vromiari ton George Soros glyfete toys koloevraioys gia ena kalytero mis8o.Den tha sas perasei.TSEKOYRI KAI FOTIA STOYS PROSKYNIMENOYS.JUDEN RAUS.HITLER WAS RIGHT
Anyone fancy doing a translation of the charming comment above? This is from Greece’s very own neo-nazi group, Chryssi Avgi.
translation:
you (Helsinki) Watch people are fags, and since you are funded by dirty (for want of an exact translation) Soros you lick jewish boots to obtain a better sallary. You won’t have it your way. Kill and burn those who subdue[*]. Juden raus, etc. etc.
note: I reckon you shouldn’t delete it. You should show it to those claiming there isn’t racism in greece.
[*] it was Kolokotronis who said that, in the middle of the Greek revolution. He was refering to those that cooperated with the Turks.
Θανατος ρε προδοτες κωλο αριστεροι μαρξιστες!
Β.Ηπειρος Ελληνικη.
Κυπρος Ελληνικη
Πρωτευουσα μας ειναι η Κωνσταντινουπολη
Ή ΕΛΛΑΣ Ή ΤΕΦΡΑ
Εδω ειναι Ελλας και μουνοπανα.Εδω δεν περνανε οι προπαγανδες σας.
Στο διαολο και σεις και οι ξενοι.
RS’s “wonderful” comments translate thus;
“Death to traitors - f**king left wing Marxists (is there any other kind?)
Northern Epeiros is Greek
Cyprus is Greek
(China is Greek - why stop there?)
Our capital is Constantinople (Istanbul)
GREECE IS ASH!!!
This is Greece you c##t wipes, your propaganda has no place here.
To hell with you foreigners.”
RS you are as stupid as you are bigoted.
Ενα πραγμα δεν μπορω να καταλαβω, RS ποιος εισαι τελικα? Ο ηλιθιος η ο πανηλιθιος?
Answers please on a postcard.
You gotta wonder where that kind of hatred comes from. Ignorance and fear I can handle, but that virulent hate what do you do about it?
You go on with your life and wonder if it’s so difficult for these jew lovers to, at least, express themselves in well structured greek with proper grammar and orthography.
Btw they are full of fear, that’s why they react like this. Most of them usually have to gather in groups or act in the darkness because they lack of courage.
Hi Abravanel, please let me know if you want me to remove any of the latest comments here on your post. I deleted a couple already when you were not around for a while. But now that you are back I think it is up to you. Your article, your call.
I believe it is important that we see and read what the “opposition” has to say but there are limits to what each of us can bear.
Both of our blogs have been targeted by the Hellenic Nationalist (not that this is a problem as he has about 2 readers maximum) but we have also been noticed by Chryssi Avgi. I was already but I don’t know how you feel about this. I can’t stop people coming to read my blog but I can and will moderate comments. I will also remove any links to these blogs but deletion on your article, I think, is up to you.
Just let me know what you would like me do…
I expected the attention from the fascists and I was prepared for it, under an aspect I even want it since this means we’re doing a good job and they wish to shut us up.
Even better I hope they keep coming in masses; maybe this way they’ll understand that the public silence on which they base their dominion in the greek political scene is of no more.
For the rest check your mail.
blah, blah, blah. Look at me I’m jewish and have been oppressed. If things are so bad in Greece why don’t you go to Israel or come here to the USA? For such a small group of people population wise you sure know how to whine and play the victim for monetary gains and pure attention. No one cares anymore to your pathetic whining especially when real atrocities are happening everyday.
Why won’t the fascists go to the USA, since I’m sure you’ll be happy to host them, and leave us greeks alone so we don’t have to whine.
If somebody had paid attention to what happenned and happens to the jews, then I’m sure there wouldn’t be atrocities today. In any case I’m surprised about your worries since most of your kind don’t really consider the Holocaust a major atrocity, so I imagine you’ve set the limit way up.
Anyway I’m not leaving Greece and I have the right to complain whenever I feel that basic rights of mine are being violated, just like every other greek. And in the end, just like any other person who sees a violation of the dignity of another human being and feels the need to defend him, independently or race, religion, color or nationality.
But I’m sure all this sounds greek to you…
It’s interesting, “Abravanel” that you claim the USA as a home for “fascists” parallel to the Jews’ claim to a home in “Israel”
If the USA is , indeed, a home for “fascists” then why do you rely on the “US State Department’s Report on Human Rights Practices” that you republish on your blog for alleged “anti-Semitic” abuses in Greece and around the world? The USA ( coincidence? ) is one of the few places in the world outside “Israel” where the government and its foreign ministry (the US State Department) has an official agency to monitor alleged “anti-Semitism” worldwide.How “fascist”, Dr Joseph Joseph Goebbels, could not have done it better !
As much as I am impressed with your dedication to defend “any other person who sees a violation of the dignity of another human being and feels the need to defend him, independently or race, religion, color or nationality.”
bravo! My question to you is: It seems that on this site and on your blog you seem to be entirely focused on Jews , both in Greece and around the world. Isn’t this a lack of acting “independently of race,religion, color or nationality”???
What about Tamils in Sri Lanka? Indians in Brazil? Palestinians in “Israel”? Greeks (who are not conveniently Jewish) in Cyprus?
Juan, the Jewish community in Greece is, in fact, very quiet about anti-semitism. Your comment is very unoriginal. I’ve heard the exact same thing said about other people who speak up. Some of us actually DO care and would like to hear more from Greeks Jews about their experience.
Greek Truth, I’ve said this so many times now that I am boring myself! No-one is under any obligation to write anything on their blog apart from what they themselves choose. If my blog was about tomatos I doubt if anyone would complain that I didn’t mention cucumbers. This only seems to occur on “human rights” or “minority issue”blogs.
You said “It seems that on this site and on your blog you seem to be entirely focused on Jews”
My blog is nowhere near entirely focused on Jews so that just shows that you haven’t read it. Abravanel’s blog maybe is (it’s quite new so who knows where he may decide to take it) and that is his choice and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
I go to many single-issue blogs because they deal with things I am interested in. It wouldn’t cross my mind to tell that author to write about something else. If you want to read about other issues that are not covered by either blog, there are many millions of blogs out there.
tsk,tsk…when twisting words try at least being artful about it my dear friend and presumably compatriot…
Your comrade Juan, (or was it you), said that he’s from the US and expressed his wish that the jews of Greece come and join him. I thought that it was a better idea that the fascists move there since I thought some exercise would do them good, since they usually hide in obscure places.
My blog is monothematic because I have chosen so, following the dessert that surrounds issues of antisemitism in greece. That doesn’t mean I don’t occupy myself with the plight of other people, nor that I don’t keep myself busy also in other places.
DD, what I meant to say was that the only thing your guest blogger “Abravanel” writes about seems to be about Jews, or about himself or his life as a jew. But you’re right, its too soon to tell what the future holds, maybe next week his blog contributions will be about Hindus!!
“Abravanel”, I never said I was from the US, although I do happen to live in the US, that other guy I guess was trying to say that the concepts of human rights and heavy focusing on Jews is more prevalent in the US, which I can objectively say it is, I myself caught several Jewish references just from watching tv this afternoon. So maybe he’s saying that you would be more comfortable here, and would have more people, a larger community to celebrate being jewish with? After all, if being jewish is so important I would even suggest living in Israel. They do need people after all.
I’ll suggest the same to Greeks in America who want to live a Greek life of talking about Greeks and Greek things 24-7, Greece would be the place, right?
Gosh, you never do quit do you? well it’s obvious to most that your whining is done for monetary reasons. Your blog is monothematic BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE it be. Your existence is monothematic because you and your culture choose it to be. You could indeed be focused on integrating with the Greeks and looking for ways to further unit the nation but, you are not instead of you chining and complaining about some graffiti and the using the Jewish Holocaust to further whip frightful emotions. Unfortunately, this is very typical of your community of late.
As a latino who has lived in numerous countries (Greece being one for them for 2 years) around the world I am constantly disappointed by the Jewish community always blaming the locals for anti-semitism. (and lets be frank here, we’re not talking about anti-semitism. You are corrupting that word. Anti-semitism means ill feelings towards semites, which jews are a small part of at best, most semites are Arabs and most Greeks are sympathetic to the Palestinians).
Indeed what what are you are spending your all your waking hours on is a natural response by people to the actions of the jewish community. It never ceases to amaze how jews could blame everyone else around the world for having some concerns towards their community and Israel instead of being introspective and reflecting upon why the majority of the world feels this way. Any healthy and balanced individual firstly looks inward to try and see if he/she is causing these feeling coming form his/her fellow man. But, nope not the jewish community. In this case it’s always the other guy’s fault inst it? When i lived in china I was reminded hat it was the Jewish community and specifically the jewish Sassoon family that started the Opium war in China and led to millions of Chinese being enslaved on opium and to lose control of the southern part of their country. So have Jews apologized for thsi historical tragedy and made do with reparations? No. No of course not, they continue to complain about some graffiti on a wall.
But, why wouldn’t you complain about some graffiti on a wall and only focus on Jewish complaints. Your goal with this blog was never to further unite with your countrymen and spread a good message it was to divide Greeks and further divide people. And I applaud the Greeks for standing up to such a blatant attempt to play the guilt card for personal and monetary attention.
you are spot on. Juan. spot on. very well written retort with many salient posts.
I find the original post and the comments condemning Greece to be deeply ironic.
What we seem to have is anecdotes and then citations from extremist sites. The critique of Greece is actually in itself an example of deep bigotry.
The same examples could be found in every country on earth. I have lived half my life in Israel and half in the States. In Israel we have extremists in the press in government and on the web who spew the most vile hatred one could imagine.
Shall I post some of the graphics so we can all condemn the Jews as racist and Israel as a racist entity? Or I can do it with examples from the U.S.
I wonder how much Talmud the author has read. Are you aware of all the screeds therein against Greeks and how it informs current hatred of all things Greek in contemporary conservative Judaism? We have our own blood libels as well my friend.
Donna: do you think you can go three blocks in Jerusalem without seeing grafitti saying: “Death to the Arabs?”
Juan: you are also making some generalizations.
Panayote Dimitras: The good-Turk-is-a-dead-Turk T-shirt is available in Monastiraki which is no neo-Nazi hangout place.
I can see Panayote that you have never been to Israel or the US where you can find the same type of shirts with different targets.
And did you really post these stupid songs as any kind of evidence of anything? This is really common everywhere.
I found this entry with a simple google search as my daughter has spent the last three years working in Greece (for a US based public relations firm).
Absolutely none of the generalizations bandied about here are consistent with her experience and she has many Greek and Greek Jewish friends.
What she relates is that people are more open, speak their minds and less politically correct. We certainly have much more hate crimes and violent hate crimes in the US. Is American lip service and strident political correctness really an indicator of more tolerance? The evidence suggests otherwise.
I guess the most striking thing here is the reference to some things said by some Greek clerics related here. This is really unsophisticated. Have you any idea of the intolerant, hateful, conspiracy minded blather spewed by some leading American and Israeli clerics?
Dave
I find your comment compelling and cannot find fault with a word you say. You display exemplary moderation and good sense.
‘The critique of Greece is actually in itself an example of deep bigotry.’
This is well put. I hope the blog author and those who routinely use her site to assail Greeks can show the courage to examine their prejudices and bigotry, examine why they feel such sneering contempt for Greeks and Greece and why they wilfully misunderstand and misrepresent Greeks and Greece – wilful misunderstanding and misrepresentation of an ethnic group defines bigotry.
After all, as Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living.
Dave,
I am slightly confused by your arguments. Are you suggesting that because worse bigotry may exist elsewhere, people do not have the right to comment on racism, sexism, etc in the country where they live? That would seem to be non-sensical.
In addition, if you are upset by the anecdotal nature of the original post, why do you make reference to your daughter’s experience of Greece?
fuck greece…..>>>>