Birth Certificates
Published by deviousdiva October 10th, 2006 in Immigration.Via Athens News
Babies of immigrants born in Greece do not have an absolute right to Greek citizenship. But they are also not eligible to obtain a birth certificate.
I had heard about this situation before but I was waiting for details before posting.
A birth certificate is an essential document that is needed in order to enrol in school (as well as for health documents, passports and for many other official reasons)
The United African Women’s Organisation has begun a campaign to change their situation here. The press release from the organisation states
The second generation in Greece is stateless and forced to live in social exclusion
Hawa Sankoh from Sierra Leone has two daughters who were born in Greece. When she went to enrol her children in school she was told she needed a birth certificate. When she went to get one, she was told that they do not issue them to immigrants. She was lucky because the school officials made an exception and accepted her children. Many others are not so fortunate. The problems Hawa and her children face are not over though. She cannot get a Sierra Leonian passport for them because they need… a birth certificate.
Imagine, one of my friends had to go back to Ghana and claim that her child was born there so that she could be issued a birth certificate
MP Fotis Kouvelis of the Coalition of the Left (Synaspismos) has raised the issue and called on the government to amend legislation to allow immigrant children born in Greece to be issued a birth certificate. The government has refused to consider the change.
The United African Women’s Organisation meets every second Sunday. The next meeting will be Sunday 22nd October. For details ring 6938-387351, 6948-118512 or 210-361-7065.
For the full article, read it at the Athens News
Technorati Tags: greece, immigration
Diva, what is considered an immigrant?
An American family I know just had a baby a few months ago (mother and father both US born, no Greek family connection) and had no problem getting a birth certificate. However, they had to do something called “onomatodoseio” which is like giving a name to the child since in Greece, most people don’t give a name before baptising.
In fact, they were told that before the US Embassy will even issue a “Report of US birth abroad”, for US Children born in Greece, they HAVE to see/have a copy of the Greek birth certificate first.
Are Americans considered immigrants? I think so, right?
Could this be a mistake?
Thank you. I was wondering when you might post this horrific information. It appeared in the Athens News more than a week ago, and the African Women’s Organization held a rally in Athens last Saturday. I have no personal experience with obtaining birth certificates. However, an American woman I knew spoke about the authorities not allowing her to leave the Greek hospital where her baby was born unless the father, to whom she was not married, claimed paternity and signed her and their daughter out. Apparently, the mother had no rights until a Greek man declared himself the father of the child. Yes, Scruffy, Americans are considered immigrants. However, it appears that Africans are considered beneath the level of American immigrants. I unfortunately had one Greek friend, whom I always believed was open-minded, who blatently declared that he thought it “disgusting” that “little Black children” were running around speaking his “sacred” language. It seems as though the Greek authorities share his views. They choose to recognize whomever they deem to be worthy of a legal record of birth in Greece and the citizenship that brings. If you’ve ever spent endless days in the dimos or nomarcheia trying to obtain renewal of your papers, you know how each worker will give you a different story, a different reason why you may or may not have the correct documents depending on their mood or the circumstances of your residence in Greece or how you present yourself. This seems no different. It is illegal, discriminatory, a violation of basic human rights, and appears to be a perpetuation of the “whimsical” nature of the Greek bureaucracy and the true lack of rights legal residents enjoy.
Melina says: “depending on their mood or the circumstances of your residence in Greece or how you present yourself.”
Melina, so true. How many times have I beend dressed in exercise clothes trying to do business and I feel like I’m invisible.
However, if I go in my suit and tie, suddenly people want to speak to me.
I actually saw this story on ANT1’s evening news program a few nights ago. They interviewed a mother of two children who couldn’t get a birth certificate. It’s shocking because I don’t see how any country can deny your birth, it’s like you don’t exist. I’m sure an appeal to Brussels would fix this problem if it’s not solved at a local level.
I sincerely apologise for being so late with this article. I have been busy and I hadn’t bought the Athens News for the last month so I missed the report until reading it online which was too late to announce the rally.
I am trying to find the post I wrote about having “The Right Passport” but I cannot find it and I have to be out of the door half an hour ago.
Just to say quickly, that my experience of getting a birth certificate for the kid was painless. I have my British passport so no questions asked and the staff were polite and quick. Believe it or not! This is not the case for people from outside the EU. Especially if you are from an “undesirable country”
Please do not think that my lack of response here on the blog is from a lack of interest. It is just a lack of time. Apologies again.
More on this later. (and some other comments I wanted to respond to)
So, just a dumb question everyone:
If these immigrant children don’t get birth certificates, how do they legally circulate in Greece as they reach age old enough to pay taxes, serve in the greek military, have an AFM etc.
And then, can you imagine an immigrant child becoming an adult in Greece without a birth certificate and he gets stopped by a policeman who asks for his ID. Then, this immigrant who speaks ONLY Greek tells a greek policeman that he doesn’t have an ID, because although he was born in Greece they didn’t give him a birth certificate.
And say the Greek policeman doesn’t believe the immigrant. Then the question is: Where would they deport this immigrant back to if the legal system says he’s not Greek? They cannot prove this immigrant’s country of origin and the fact that he speaks only Greek should tell the legal authorities something.
DUH!!!!!!
No ID, no proof of country of origin.
Arghh!! This is confusing as hell
Hope you don’t mind but i took the liberty of reposting that entry on my blog. I have nothing to say except that this situation is ridiculus.
This is sad, since the right to a birth registration is the entry-level to human rights.
Hmm… What do Greek nationality laws establish for ‘acquisition’ of nationality at birth? Is it ‘acquired’ by the event of birth in the national territory or ‘transmitted’ via bloodline from your parents if at least one of them is Greek?
At least in some other countries this situation arises to unduly avoid State recognition of nationality to children born within its territory.
hi. I am greek but currently studying in the uk. I think your posts are extremely interesting. I was glad that at last some people in greece are starting to admit the obvious : that behind this facade of “goodharted” and “generous” people lies a lot of ignorance, prejudice, racism etc. Then I saw in one of your posts that you hold an english passport. I don’t mean to be rude, but I was wondering whether you grew up in greece ( and maybe have a parent from the uk) or just ended up in greece later in life. I know it’s a personal and slightly rude question, I am just curious as to whether your outlook of things is that of a foreigner, or someone who, like me, even though born and raised in athens still finds it hard to swallow the untolerant bigotry of my fellow compatriots… call it sociological curiosity if you like…
Hi buruburu, it’s my pleasure. (I haven’t been able to access any blogger sites today so I haven’t been able to pop over to your place yet. I will do later)
Hi danilena and welcome to my blog. No, it’s not a rude question and I am quite happy to answer your curiosity. I am British. So yes, my views are those of a foreigner living here. This has been the reason why so much critisism has been levelled at me over this blog.
I no longer feel the need to justify myself in this respect. I have so many Greek readers and commenters here who care about these issues too that I think that says everything.
Anyway, thank you for coming by and taking the time to comment. I hope you will return and join the discussions that take place here.
Honestly, there is no reason not to issue a birth certificate - it doesn’t give you immediate resident status, anyway. So why are Greeks so concerned?
As far as I know, a birth certificate should always be filed, no matter what, unless for some reason the parents are crazy like Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes.
What happens to foreign, non-EU couples who happen to be travelling here when the wife suddenly gives birth a month or two early? They don’t get a record of their child’s birth?
Melusina,
I agree with you; often ultranationalists are basically mixing up nationality laws and the duty to register every child’s birth, immediately after birth (C.R.C.) but they do it with an agenda.
In those countries in which nationality is granted to every child born within their territories -jus soli- some ultranationalist’s argue -for example- that children born to illegal immigrants must not be registered but ONLY in the Consulate of the parent’s country of origin.
From what I have witnessed, what said ultranationalist groups want is to prevent the State where the child was born from issuing the registration to avoid regular application of nationality laws forcing children into what they will later argue is an ‘illegal’ or ‘in transit’ status which is again, not acceptable.
hi dd! i haven’t taken the time to read lately but now that i did i was so upset! racist graffiti and refusal to grant birt certificates to babies born in greece.. i’m discovering more abuses by the day here… and it is surprising that it hasn’t been discussed more in the media or the human rights reports i’v been digging myself into lately!
well, it’s time for a needed weekend break..
hello everyone, i have been very interested to read all of this but i have a slightly different question maybe you can help me with, i am british and have live in Greece for 5 years with my partner and mother and i own a internet business and my mother owns a house. now my partener and i want to start a family but i have heard that if i give birth to a boy in greece and manage to obtain a greek birth certificate, then he would by law have to go into the army. is this? is it difficult to have a baby legealy in greece? also i should mention that my partner is american, we are not married and neither of us have any greek relatives. i have also heard that greece doesnt have the best medical care, i havent needed much medical care while ive have been in greece, the few times i have been in hospitals i have found the doctors and nurses very kind and helpful and they regonise my NHS healthcard, for example last year i had to go into hospital with pnumonia and after all the treatment including picking up a few things from the pharmacy, all in all it only cost my one euro… is anti-natal care as cheap?
sorry about all the questions, having a baby is complicated enough without all this, would it be easier to give birth in england?
i would very much appreciate any tips or advice any of you can offer!
thanks very much!
Hannah
p.s. i apologise for my bad spelling!