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	<title>Comments on: Guest blogger</title>
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	<description>The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/09/08/guest-blogger/#comment-1184</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/?p=150#comment-1184</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with you Ah Jew. It is not our job as bloggers to&#160; present all sides. Most of the people I read are writing about their personal experiences. I have been heavily critisised in the past for not acknowledging and stating that men have problems too or white people have it just as hard. This is not my job. It seems to me that this is often used as a way to derail discussion when the finger is being pointed in an uncomfortable direction. When people feel threatened?I think it is very important to acknowledge our own roles in oppression first and foremost.</description>
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<p>I have to disagree with you Ah Jew. It is not our job as bloggers to&nbsp; present all sides. Most of the people I read are writing about their personal experiences. I have been heavily critisised in the past for not acknowledging and stating that men have problems too or white people have it just as hard. This is not my job. It seems to me that this is often used as a way to derail discussion when the finger is being pointed in an uncomfortable direction. When people feel threatened?I think it is very important to acknowledge our own roles in oppression first and foremost.
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		<title>By: Ah Jew</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/09/08/guest-blogger/#comment-1181</link>
		<dc:creator>Ah Jew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/?p=150#comment-1181</guid>
		<description>
@ BROWN POWER: I will politely disagree with you regarding the way we both use the word &#34;objective&#34;. For example, if I was on trial for burglary, I certainly wouldn't want a judge who had been robbed because he couldn't be objective. In fact, any time a jury is picked, they never take someone who has been victimized by the crime that the defendant has been accused of.
So, in the same breath, how could you expect Navj or anyone else who has suffered at the hands of discrimination to be objective. Objectivity is just that. It should be judged by an impartial juror (who hasn't been victimized) and who can look at both sides of the story and make his ruling. 
Again, I will politely disagree with you and I guess we can leave it at that.
@ NAVJ: Have you ever tried to analyze why the Israelis act like the way you describe. Is there a method to their madness? For example, why don't the SWEDES, or DUTCH act that way? Maybe, after so many times of being attacked by Arabs, Palestinians, or what have you, that they (Israelis) are just plain defensive and afraid. Fear can cause prejudice amongst otherwise decent people.
I live in Greece, and when people look at me, I see that they sometimes look at me with fearful expressions as if I am a thief or something. But, considering that many Greeks have had bad experiences with foreigners, I don't take it personally and just assume that they are afraid and then I feel sorry for them. Once I feel sorry for them, than my sympathy comes out and I feel much better.
Have you thought of feeling sorry for the poor Israelis who have to suffer under indiscriminate attacks by Palestinians, Arabs, Al Quedas etc and wondering if their daughters will make it to the next grade, let alone come back from the supermarket alive?
We all hear about how terrible the Palestinians have it but what of the poor Israelis I say? 
Balance is important, don't you think Navj?
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<p>@ BROWN POWER: I will politely disagree with you regarding the way we both use the word &quot;objective&quot;. For example, if I was on trial for burglary, I certainly wouldn&#8217;t want a judge who had been robbed because he couldn&#8217;t be objective. In fact, any time a jury is picked, they never take someone who has been victimized by the crime that the defendant has been accused of.<br />
So, in the same breath, how could you expect Navj or anyone else who has suffered at the hands of discrimination to be objective. Objectivity is just that. It should be judged by an impartial juror (who hasn&#8217;t been victimized) and who can look at both sides of the story and make his ruling.<br />
Again, I will politely disagree with you and I guess we can leave it at that.<br />
@ NAVJ: Have you ever tried to analyze why the Israelis act like the way you describe. Is there a method to their madness? For example, why don&#8217;t the SWEDES, or DUTCH act that way? Maybe, after so many times of being attacked by Arabs, Palestinians, or what have you, that they (Israelis) are just plain defensive and afraid. Fear can cause prejudice amongst otherwise decent people.<br />
I live in Greece, and when people look at me, I see that they sometimes look at me with fearful expressions as if I am a thief or something. But, considering that many Greeks have had bad experiences with foreigners, I don&#8217;t take it personally and just assume that they are afraid and then I feel sorry for them. Once I feel sorry for them, than my sympathy comes out and I feel much better.<br />
Have you thought of feeling sorry for the poor Israelis who have to suffer under indiscriminate attacks by Palestinians, Arabs, Al Quedas etc and wondering if their daughters will make it to the next grade, let alone come back from the supermarket alive?<br />
We all hear about how terrible the Palestinians have it but what of the poor Israelis I say?<br />
Balance is important, don&#8217;t you think Navj?
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/09/08/guest-blogger/#comment-1177</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 05:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/?p=150#comment-1177</guid>
		<description>Not at all nayj, it is interesting to read opinions on your guest post for a change ! It's my pleasure, please continue...</description>
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<p>Not at all nayj, it is interesting to read opinions on your guest post for a change ! It&#8217;s my pleasure, please continue&#8230;
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		<title>By: nayj</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/09/08/guest-blogger/#comment-1176</link>
		<dc:creator>nayj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 02:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/?p=150#comment-1176</guid>
		<description>&#34;some Palestinian troublemakers&#34; says it all.Israeli Arabs (as they like to call themselves)&#160; who live inside of Israel have different rights from Palestinians in the West bank. If you ask them, they will answer your questions in perfect Hebrew. have you read Dancing Arabs? have you heard of internalized colonization or cultural imperialism? Those folks were interviewed for radio (key word: public)? If they want to hang onto their priviledges they better talk about nice and wonderful Israel. Remember the Iraqis under Saddam Hussein? they all voted for him. really?two points1. you keep personalizing this issue to MY experience. Someone being rude to me is not the point. Israeli society is racist so that whether individuals are nice or not is really immaterial. I did not say they were all monsters.There are Israeli troublemakers and they ruin it for all of us. There are American troublemakers and they ruin it for all of us. when we travel, people around the globe 'hate our guts'. I wonder why? Is it because we bomb whomever we want whenever we want? BUT WE ARE NICE. nobody is nicer than an american when you meet one in person. 2.Read the histories of Palestinians and read the histories of colonialism from the perspective of those who were colonized. Contexualize the experience. I did not experience ANY pain compared to Palestinians and what they suffer on a daily basis. Don't isolate a few experiences. ah j, have you visited Israel? Palestine? do go when you have a chance.________________bfp, good observation about not reading along a binary. thanks for the analysis over at my blog too.dd, hope I am not talking too much over here! please jump in.....</description>
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<p>&quot;some Palestinian troublemakers&quot; says it all.Israeli Arabs (as they like to call themselves)&nbsp; who live inside of Israel have different rights from Palestinians in the West bank. If you ask them, they will answer your questions in perfect Hebrew. have you read Dancing Arabs? have you heard of internalized colonization or cultural imperialism? Those folks were interviewed for radio (key word: public)? If they want to hang onto their priviledges they better talk about nice and wonderful Israel. Remember the Iraqis under Saddam Hussein? they all voted for him. really?two points1. you keep personalizing this issue to MY experience. Someone being rude to me is not the point. Israeli society is racist so that whether individuals are nice or not is really immaterial. I did not say they were all monsters.There are Israeli troublemakers and they ruin it for all of us. There are American troublemakers and they ruin it for all of us. when we travel, people around the globe &#8216;hate our guts&#8217;. I wonder why? Is it because we bomb whomever we want whenever we want? BUT WE ARE NICE. nobody is nicer than an american when you meet one in person. 2.Read the histories of Palestinians and read the histories of colonialism from the perspective of those who were colonized. Contexualize the experience. I did not experience ANY pain compared to Palestinians and what they suffer on a daily basis. Don&#8217;t isolate a few experiences. ah j, have you visited Israel? Palestine? do go when you have a chance.________________bfp, good observation about not reading along a binary. thanks for the analysis over at my blog too.dd, hope I am not talking too much over here! please jump in&#8230;..
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		<title>By: brownfemipower</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/09/08/guest-blogger/#comment-1173</link>
		<dc:creator>brownfemipower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 21:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/?p=150#comment-1173</guid>
		<description>Ah Jew, I think you are assuming that there are only two sides to an arab/palestinian position.&#160; They are suicide bombers or they are mindless supporters of military regimes.&#160; If you would take the time to read past the rhetoric you would see that there are not just palestinians/arabs who are speaking out (yes, speaking out, not committing suicide) against israeli agression and violence.&#160; Israeli's themselves are standing up to the violent monitoring and destruction.&#160; And i think the most &#34;objective&#34; person to speak of ill treatment are those who were/are treated ill.&#160; I'm not sure how a person who hasn't had the experience of having their house obliterated or children starved or husband wrongfully imprisoned or grandparents harrassed at check points is supposed to be &#34;objective&#34; about a situation.&#160; If anything, they are underrepresenting the experience or appropriating the experience as their own.&#160; Those who are treated ill have the right to speak out of their own mouths the ill they have experienced.&#160; Its a very basic right given to victims in almost every court of justice.&#160; why should it be different in any other situation?&#160; </description>
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<p>Ah Jew, I think you are assuming that there are only two sides to an arab/palestinian position.&nbsp; They are suicide bombers or they are mindless supporters of military regimes.&nbsp; If you would take the time to read past the rhetoric you would see that there are not just palestinians/arabs who are speaking out (yes, speaking out, not committing suicide) against israeli agression and violence.&nbsp; Israeli&#8217;s themselves are standing up to the violent monitoring and destruction.&nbsp; And i think the most &quot;objective&quot; person to speak of ill treatment are those who were/are treated ill.&nbsp; I&#8217;m not sure how a person who hasn&#8217;t had the experience of having their house obliterated or children starved or husband wrongfully imprisoned or grandparents harrassed at check points is supposed to be &quot;objective&quot; about a situation.&nbsp; If anything, they are underrepresenting the experience or appropriating the experience as their own.&nbsp; Those who are treated ill have the right to speak out of their own mouths the ill they have experienced.&nbsp; Its a very basic right given to victims in almost every court of justice.&nbsp; why should it be different in any other situation?&nbsp;
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		<title>By: Ah-Jew</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/09/08/guest-blogger/#comment-1166</link>
		<dc:creator>Ah-Jew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 05:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/?p=150#comment-1166</guid>
		<description>
Navj,
Ok, I'm sorry if you are in pain. It sounds you like had a rough time. But, can you really be objective since you obviously were mistreated. For balance, I'd like to hear from other Palestinians who don't get mistreated to make an informed decision. I'm sure thousands of Arabs and Palestinians go through Israel all the time with no problems.
Just the other day, I heard a program on the radio through one of the world services and there were Palestinians who live in Israel saying it's not that bad and that Israelis are nice people, and I remember one man saying something about some Palestinian troublemakers spoiling it for the rest of the good, law abiding ones. 
Also, I couldn't believe it but he said something to the extent that when you start to send your children to be suicide bombers, you've already lost the war, and turned into something worse than your enemy. Chilling words, don't you think? 
Again, I'm sorry if I trivialized your pain, but I'm sure not all Israelis are like that.
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<p>Navj,<br />
Ok, I&#8217;m sorry if you are in pain. It sounds you like had a rough time. But, can you really be objective since you obviously were mistreated. For balance, I&#8217;d like to hear from other Palestinians who don&#8217;t get mistreated to make an informed decision. I&#8217;m sure thousands of Arabs and Palestinians go through Israel all the time with no problems.<br />
Just the other day, I heard a program on the radio through one of the world services and there were Palestinians who live in Israel saying it&#8217;s not that bad and that Israelis are nice people, and I remember one man saying something about some Palestinian troublemakers spoiling it for the rest of the good, law abiding ones.<br />
Also, I couldn&#8217;t believe it but he said something to the extent that when you start to send your children to be suicide bombers, you&#8217;ve already lost the war, and turned into something worse than your enemy. Chilling words, don&#8217;t you think?<br />
Again, I&#8217;m sorry if I trivialized your pain, but I&#8217;m sure not all Israelis are like that.
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		<title>By: nayj</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/09/08/guest-blogger/#comment-1160</link>
		<dc:creator>nayj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/?p=150#comment-1160</guid>
		<description>That's funny. your comments trivialize my story and attempt to diminish the reality that Palestinians have to face racism every day inside Israel and in the occupied territories.America(n embassy) is in Israel's pocket. another joke.I was waiting in line. The Israeli policewoman looked at my&#160; passport form which had my father's name on it and asked me to step aside. I waited 45 minutes with no one telling me a thing. I went up&#160; to ask why I was being detained. I was told I was a security risk and to continue waiting. The airport was empty, after midnight at this point, and I kept waiting. Then they asked me many questions over and over again. She was curious about my name, my parents' origin. I asked why they were suspicious and that is when she said it was because of my father's name. She admitted that the only reason for my detention was my name. After four hours, I did tell the Israeli who went through my bags that they were racist. She just shrugged her shoulder at me.why do you give the benefit of the doubt to Israelis only? My story is THE NORM. My experience was not different from other Palestinians or Arab Americans. Israelis are nice to people who are not Arabs, and they go out of their way to be extra nice because they have lots of bad press don't they?I have more stories--more horrific. One woman, a professor, not an Arab, but with Palestinians and other folks of color, had a camera on a bus trip we took. One Israeli thought she took a picture of the wall and demanded she give up her camera. She tried to explain and instead of listening, he asked the Palestinian busdriver to translate his Hebrew into Arabic. &#34;Never come back to this country and if you do, I'll make sure someone rapes you. You'll suffer.&#160; go with your Palestinian friends.&#34; I was not there, but I heard this story from my friend who was forced to translate this heinous &#38; humilating message from Arabic to English. The Israeli made them translate it in English to her in front of a busload of people. Thank G nothing else happened. Israelis have their guns pointed all the time at Palestinians and at tourists who they deem suspicious-- not tourist who look &#34;American&#34; or &#34;European&#34; (read: white). Israelis mistreat Sephardic jews too, so it is not a question of religion or nationality but further evidence that racism is very deep seated in Israel like every other state in this world.I and many of my colleagues and students are American citizens and American born. What does it mean to 'look' American? Blonde or white-skinned.&#160;Our American passports afforded us some better mobility than our Palestinian friends. We could visit places in THEIR homeland that&#160; they could never visit. Go to Palestine. Meet some Palestinians--Real people not phantoms of your imagination.</description>
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<p>That&#8217;s funny. your comments trivialize my story and attempt to diminish the reality that Palestinians have to face racism every day inside Israel and in the occupied territories.America(n embassy) is in Israel&#8217;s pocket. another joke.I was waiting in line. The Israeli policewoman looked at my&nbsp; passport form which had my father&#8217;s name on it and asked me to step aside. I waited 45 minutes with no one telling me a thing. I went up&nbsp; to ask why I was being detained. I was told I was a security risk and to continue waiting. The airport was empty, after midnight at this point, and I kept waiting. Then they asked me many questions over and over again. She was curious about my name, my parents&#8217; origin. I asked why they were suspicious and that is when she said it was because of my father&#8217;s name. She admitted that the only reason for my detention was my name. After four hours, I did tell the Israeli who went through my bags that they were racist. She just shrugged her shoulder at me.why do you give the benefit of the doubt to Israelis only? My story is THE NORM. My experience was not different from other Palestinians or Arab Americans. Israelis are nice to people who are not Arabs, and they go out of their way to be extra nice because they have lots of bad press don&#8217;t they?I have more stories&#8211;more horrific. One woman, a professor, not an Arab, but with Palestinians and other folks of color, had a camera on a bus trip we took. One Israeli thought she took a picture of the wall and demanded she give up her camera. She tried to explain and instead of listening, he asked the Palestinian busdriver to translate his Hebrew into Arabic. &quot;Never come back to this country and if you do, I&#8217;ll make sure someone rapes you. You&#8217;ll suffer.&nbsp; go with your Palestinian friends.&quot; I was not there, but I heard this story from my friend who was forced to translate this heinous &amp; humilating message from Arabic to English. The Israeli made them translate it in English to her in front of a busload of people. Thank G nothing else happened. Israelis have their guns pointed all the time at Palestinians and at tourists who they deem suspicious&#8211; not tourist who look &quot;American&quot; or &quot;European&quot; (read: white). Israelis mistreat Sephardic jews too, so it is not a question of religion or nationality but further evidence that racism is very deep seated in Israel like every other state in this world.I and many of my colleagues and students are American citizens and American born. What does it mean to &#8216;look&#8217; American? Blonde or white-skinned.&nbsp;Our American passports afforded us some better mobility than our Palestinian friends. We could visit places in THEIR homeland that&nbsp; they could never visit. Go to Palestine. Meet some Palestinians&#8211;Real people not phantoms of your imagination.
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		<title>By: Ah-Jew</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/09/08/guest-blogger/#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>Ah-Jew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 14:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/?p=150#comment-1159</guid>
		<description>Did you act suspiciously in Tel Aviv?&#160; Or Maybe the Policewoman fancied you?&#160; Maybe the police had a tip about a person who looked like you and had a name similar to yours.&#160; Sometimes, the police don't always tell you their intel at the time they detain you.
Of course, it's not nice, but you could always report your experience to the American Embassy in Tel Aviv, Did you?&#160; 
I find most Israelis to be very friendly and quite hospitable, so maybe&#160; your story&#160; is not the norm.</description>
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<p>Did you act suspiciously in Tel Aviv?&nbsp; Or Maybe the Policewoman fancied you?&nbsp; Maybe the police had a tip about a person who looked like you and had a name similar to yours.&nbsp; Sometimes, the police don&#8217;t always tell you their intel at the time they detain you.<br />
Of course, it&#8217;s not nice, but you could always report your experience to the American Embassy in Tel Aviv, Did you?&nbsp;<br />
I find most Israelis to be very friendly and quite hospitable, so maybe&nbsp; your story&nbsp; is not the norm.
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