Votanikos: Racism
Published by deviousdiva August 1st, 2006 in Roma.
This is the hardest post that I have had to write so far. Yes. HAD to write. I could not contemplate writing any of the other posts without having had this one in mind first. I know why it's hard. I am having to face some realities that I would rather not look at right now. This whole series has stirred up feelings that I would rather not deal with right now. But …
Racism is ugly.
Poverty is ugly
The Roma who live in the Votanikos settlement are doubly discriminated against. For a start, they are Roma and the Roma are one of the most despised and discriminated against communities on the planet. Hated by the vast majority of everyone. The Roma there, are also Albanian. If you could even begin to imagine what that means, you would probably only understand a fraction of the whole picture.
Let's look at the Roma discrimination first.
I have seen small children literally kicked out of restaurants like animals because they were begging. They are called the G word here which is the equivalent of the N word. I have heard some very compassionate and caring people say that they choose to live like that. That they are naturally dirty. That they are thieves and criminals. And on and on. An everyday threat to children here (and I have heard this in England too) is to say that if you are not a good boy/girl, the gypsies will take you away.
They are unwelcome wherever they go. Disliked. Hated I could say, without exaggeration.
Most people will not employ Roma or rent houses to them. Most people would not be happy to have Roma children in the classroom. Or sit next to them on the bus. Or be in a hospital ward with them. Or be employed alongside them.
The grim reality is that the ones who have nowhere to live but on the rubbish heap I went to, are dirty. They have no water to wash. No soap. No toothpaste. No way to really get clean and stay clean. The other sad realty is that these extremes of poverty and desperation can and does bring out the worst in people.
If you suddenly found yourself with nothing, what lengths would you go to to get something ? Anything ? Food ? Clothing ? Something to sell for cash ? Would you stop at lying ? Grabbing what you can ? Stealing ?
Then think that you grew up with less than nothing. Your entire life you are told YOU are less than nothing. You cannot read. You have no basic education in anything. You will never have a job besides picking up discarded rubbish from the street and selling it, or begging. You will have no basic healthcare. You will die at around 50 years old. Can you even imagine ? I certainly can't.
Let's look at the Albanian discrimination.
Take what you read above and add: Everyone hates the Albanians too. Albanians are blamed for most crime here. In the mainstream media, there is hardly a mention of nationality unless the perpetrator is Albanian. Albanians are rarely employed in anything other than menial jobs. Many people will not rent to Albanians and are not happy about their children sharing a classroom with them. They are seen as criminal, stupid and uncultured. Sound familiar ? It is not at all uncommon to insult someone by calling them an Albanian (or a Gypsy)
This is where the tough faces come from. The anger. The lack of trust. The lack of self-esteem. At a very young age. The little ones are already tougher than I will ever be.
My anger about the situation that they are growing up and living in, does not blind me to the fact that it is hard to connect. I know nothing of their lives. I visited three times. I'm just another over-privileged do-gooder, who will nod and look around and go away.
I cannot even begin to pretend that I can do anything real. Change will only come for them with effort from outside AND inside this community. Organisation. Housing. Education. Money.
I am looking at people pushed to the very edge of society and it's ugly. I am seeing the reality of that and it's ugly. I have been at a loss as to what to say in this final post in this series. (For now) I am not an academic. I don't have any solutions. In fact all I can do is what I am doing now. Write about the situation. Tell whoever is reading, that this is how people are living in this European city. And again, this is not only about the Roma in Votanikos. For me, this is about how we continue to treat our fellow human beings all over the world, despite all our talk and our pride in democracy.
I guess it comes down to the fact that we still think and feel that some people are worth more than others. And that is heartbreaking.
[I went again today hoping to see some of the kids I photographed and to give them the pictures. Sadly, none of them were there. They were out working]
Nice series: I lived in Greece myself, and had no idea they lived in those conditions. Also, I’m sure you’ll find that many Greeks, even native Athenians who’ve lived in Athens their entire lives, do not know what life is really like for them.I just wish you hadn’t written this:> If you suddenly found yourself with nothing, what lengths would you go> to to get something ? Anything ? Food ? Clothing ? Something to sell for> cash ? Would you stop at lying ? Grabbing what you can ? Stealing ?Terrible as their lives are, excusing this behavior (and even though you’re not explicitly endorsing it here, you’re on a slippery slope in that direction) is where you lost me."Love the sinner, but hate the sin" as you-know-who would say.
Thank you for your comment GreekAmericanNYC.
A slippery slope it may seem to you but I think these questions need to be asked.
Here’s another one:
Who is the "sinner" in the case of a woman (with no criminal record) who was jailed for stealing babymilk for her one month old OR the courts who took her baby away and sent her to jail ?
(this actually happened)
I am not advocating people should be allowed to go about stealing whatever they fancy, but I do believe the law is not always the same as justice.
Why didn’t the Roma lady breastfeed? Then she wouldn’t have had to steal the baby milk, and wouldn’t have jeopardized her baby.
Please see http://www.laleche.org.uk for more info on this concept.
Did anyone even say the "lady" was Roma or anything? You have your own agenda… Maybe ? La Leche ?Let’s not talk about your thing. Let’s talk about justice which has nothing to do with you. Really.
COMMENT DELETED BY DEVIOUS DIVA
Dear DD,
Thank you for this series of posts on the Roma. I’ve been very interested to read them, and have enjoyed the beautiful photographs (I’d love to know what camera you use, btw …), especially the ones of smiling children. I have a god-daughter living in Greece with her Albanian mother and I hope that neither of them suffer the discrimination which you describe as rife, or, if they do, that they can rise above it.
You ask what you can do. I don’t know, because I don’t know your situation, but I offer you my experience.
I, together with a few other women, used to run a women’s group for recently arrived asylum seekers in the UK. The women were generally from Turkey, from Albania, from Iraq, from Africa, from Iran. Some were Roma. Most were not. The women were living with their children, sometimes with their husbands, in temporary accommodation until they were given more permanent homes. The hostel had been a hotel and included a brand new annexe. It was comfortable, clean and meals were provided. The asylum seekers had no money and nothing to do. I like to think that we made a difference. It was intensely draining – they often suffered from depression which we were not equipped to deal with, needed space away from their children, and their mental and physical needs were so great that it seemed as if we could never meet one zillionth of them. At the end of a session we would often find that some of our equipment had gone missing which I found so disheartening – I didn’t want to believe that the women whom we were trying to help would steal from us. Small things like dressmaking scissors, glue, but we were a charity and depended for our work on small donations, mostly from local Christian businessmen as it happened. It was very difficult work. Which is not to say that it was not worthwhile, nor that I wasn’t happy to do it. But it burned me out. I think the work would have been better done by professionals trained to keep boundaries and with greater resources at their disposal. Not that there were any around at the time, of course.
Things evolved (I was offered more hours at my paid job) and I decided that I could be more useful helping just two women. Even then it required me to constantly consider whether I was disabling the women by taking over their problems and I had to try to be disciplined enough not to do that. I am sure I overstepped the mark all the time and I certainly broke the rules of my organisation. My children became resentful of the time taken up helping with crises as they arose. Like being taken into detention with a view to removal and immigration officers threatening to take children away. I decided (with the help of some wise words from older women) that my priority had to be with my children, even though their needs were nowhere near so great. I am very grateful to, and have enormous admiration for, those whose personal responsibilities are less and who thus can, and do, devote their lives to helping the Roma and other disadvantaged people. I am still connected with the two women and their children, both of whom are flourishing.
In an ideal world, if I were the Greek government, I would ensure that the Roma had access to clean running water, sanitation, and electricity. I would install a portacabin at the site which would include a small lauderette and a clothes store. There would be a weekly clinic with a health visitor and a doctor on call. There would be a vaccination clinic and a mental health nurse. An advocacy service, too, to help sort out problems with the adminstration and ensure all children are registered for school. There would be a mother and toddler group each week with cups of tea for the mothers and games and toys for the children – to begin the socialisation necessary for school and to ensure that the mothers were equipped to be supportive parents . There would be an adult learning class, too, for mothers and fathers who wanted to learn to read and write, and even some IT facilities and a small library. Some of this work could be carried out by volunteers, but would be best performed by an NGO large enough and well-funded enough to commit to the project for at least five years, and who could afford to pay some of the helpers – the advocates, the health care workers, the play supervisors, and so on. The Roma would be involved right from the start and encouraged to take over the projects themselves, to run play schemes, to advocate on behalf of others. I think you’d have to start with the Portacabin and a few committed Roma and perhaps a mentor scheme that linked each Roma family with one volunteer? Perhaps just helping one family is a realistic goal for you?
Hi First time reader, Perhaps there was some reason the woman could not breastfeed? Or chose not to?
Hi Daffodil, Thank you for your very interesting and helpful comment. All of your suggestions about what the government should do are correct. Non of it will happen though. There is no interest from the government to do anything other than evict the communities in the hope that they will eventually leave the country and become someone elses responsibility.
Just helping one family is a very realistic goal and one that I will look into.
Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom.
By the way: I’m using a Pentax Optio A10 (8 megapixels) Great camera. Highly recommended.
first time reader–formula companies regularly target poor women/third world women with campaigns to get them to use formula. they tell them that their milk is not sufficient or that it is unhealthy for the baby or whatever–this abuse by formula companies has been broadly documented, and has been written about extensivly by la leche league…
I think that it would also be helpful to stop asking what the government can do or what *I* wish for the roma people and start dialoguing with the roma people about what they see their needs as. Diva wrote before that they see their biggest need as water–which kind of stands in stark contrast to "needing to be clean" or socialization preperation courses. these things sound much to much like a kinder gentler version of "they are animals" that they haters are using–instead of violating them because they are dirty or "unsocialized," clean them up and teach them how to be human. either way, they are still be judged by the standards of those in power–I’ve learned through my own organizing that the better thing would be to find out how the groups are organizing amongst themselves and then support that organizing how you can. ask them what they need from you, don’t decide what they need for them, then be disappointed when they steal what they really need from you. the roma have survived for this long against the greatest odds–they obviously have survival skills that many people aren’t even aware of, how can those survival skills be supplimented and encouraged by those who care? For example, maybe an elder who took some classes at school once has been informally teaching children every once in a while–wouldn’t it be better to maybe provide this elder with some food and a couple of fresh books to teach from rather than trying to clean her up and "civilize" her? in other words, shouldn’t the community be empowered and respected rather than further disempowered through government interventions and good intentions?
I don’t know tho, because this is a different country so maybe my experiences don’t cross over, but I really think that you can’t go wrong by asking the community themselves what they need then finding ways to empower that community to get what they want rather than deciding for them what they need and thus keeping them in a position of powerlessness….
Brown and DD: Who knows why the lady chose not to breastfeed. I guess you are right. Big business has their "tits" (pun) in everything I see (even formula).
You are absolutely right, bfp, when you write:"asking the community themselves what they need then finding ways to empower that community to get what they want rather than deciding for them what they need and thus keeping them in a position of powerlessness…."The sad thing is, here and elsewhere, is that there is no willingness on the part of the government to do anything. It seems it is easier to ignore them mostly and then just move them on, hopefully out of the country so they will not have to deal with the issues. Because (sarcasm) it is more desirable to have another swanky pointless stadium than to help people reach their true potential. Because it is easier to throw someone in jail than to deal with the problems that led her to steal milk for her baby.
DD said: "Because it is easier to throw someone in jail than to deal with the problems that led her to steal milk for her baby."
Well, why not just divide all the money of the world equally and we can all the live in the Communist idealism. Ok, no one goes hungry, but then again it’s a boring world when we all wear plaid and sing the same song.
Risk and success/failure is what makes the world go round. Some succeed and others fail. It’s just part of life.
Is it wrong that the Roma get a bad deal? Probably, but hey that’s life. When my Dad died of lung cancer at 50, was that fair?
Well I don’t know No to Communism, is it fair ? No it isn’t.
But when there are things we can actually do to help or to change the unfairness isn’t it better that we try rather than saying “that’s life”
Here’s a great quote which I found yesterday but your comment made me want to post it now:
“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist “
Dom Hélder Câmara (Born February 7, 1909, Fortaleza, Ceará, North East Brazil . Died August 27, 1999 Recife) He was Roman Catholic Archbishop of Olinda and Recife. He was widely considered one of the great Catholic figures of the 20th century.
COMMENT DELETED BY DEVIOUS DIVA
COMMENT DELETED BY DEVIOUS DIVA
I’ve read on your blog that the word "Gypsy" is a pejorative. Is this true or is this a position you’ve taken on your blog. It’s the first time I’ve heard that it is a bad word. I’ve heard "ROMA" referred to as Gypsies for years as well as movies in Hollywood with the term "Gypsy" used as well as the music band "Gypsy King".
Could you enlighten me a bit on the term, and also what’s the difference between a Gypsy (Roma) and a Tzigano (another term I’ve heard).
No disrespect meant, just curious that’s all.
P.S. I tried posting this several times in different places but it didn’t work. Is there something wrong with wordpress today?
Let me help with an answer to Smitty. By the way, I am disgusted that the Anonymous racist crap is still posted above and in the education thread.In Greek gyftos better translated as gyp gypo is pejorative and insulting. Rom and Tsiganos are the acceptable -by them- terms. Then there is the term athiganos which was the official authorities’ designaiton of the group, equally unacceptable today.
Sorry people, I have been away from my machine a couple of days and I see several racist comments have slipped by me. I catch most and delete them without anyone seeing. Apologies to everyone for the offense that has been caused.
Smitty, your comment was caught by my spam filter. I approved it when I saw it.
Comment deleted by Devious Diva
You are already banned from this blog.
Well, it took me a while to realise, but I know who you are and I have asked you not to post here. Your last indignant comment gave you away.
Comment deleted by Devious Diva.
Your antics in the Chat Room just made you look stupid.
WHAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT “YOU ARE BANNED”?
Panayote:
Is Roma a term known by most of the Greeks. I asked my Greek sister in-law who is 30 years old, university educated here in Greece and she had no idea what a "ROMA" was. She thought "anthiganos" was an appropriate term, as well as Gyftos. Also, she said a Tsiganos is a different type of gypsy (roma) who is more clean than the regular gypsy (roma).
I wonder if this is a common view among Greeks or is my sister-in-law just ignorant? I don’t think she means them any harm but I’ve updated her on the proper terms.
Many people are ignornat but just google the term Roma Roma in Greek and will see that is now frequently used in the media and by authorities.
Hi
Im an albanian girl, and have to say that I am very proud to see that someone is trying to make a change in this crazy world. Right now i dont live in albanian/kosovo but my visits to Kosovo maked me feel very bad. I saw so many diskriminations against the roma people, especilly in my hometown. I thought the albanian learnd a lesson when they got diskriminated by the serbian people but fourtinitly not. When you talk about the kids begging for money or food , i rekognize my self. I saw so many kids in Kosovo begging for food and the owners just throw them our. Its like no one does a thing to make theire life better. I think this is a huge problem. I really hope that theire situation will change for something better.