Moderation
Published by deviousdiva June 1st, 2006 in Personal.Thank you all for your comments on the “We hate DD thread” below. I am not going respond to everyone individually but I do want to address a couple of issues. I hope you understand.
I did not take the decision to ban people from this site lightly. It was not done in a fit of anger but over a long time of accumulating experience with discussions here. I have repeated over and over again that I do not stop people who disagree with me from commenting here. Your comments force me to think and question too. I don’t have all the answers, as you all know, so it all helps to clarify my arguments. However, I do draw the line at insulting, offensive remarks. Many people who have commented here have crossed that line on occasions and they have not been pulled up on it. Why?
I am not always in front of my machine babysitting my blog and comments do slip through.
Sometimes a short warning from me has been enough to get the discussion back on track.
Some people have thrown insults on occasion but for the most part are civil and willing to debate without being rude.
In all honesty, I like some commentors more than others, but even they have been warned at times.
This recent decision to ban certain people from this blog has come from a long and tedious history. Since finding out what was being said about me, on a blog that I find appalling, I have found it hard to swallow. I am talking about a blog where the owner openly admires Le Pen and actively tries to prove that black people are inferior. I will be honest with you, I feel threatened by it and by these opinions. It hurts to read those comments and not just because of those ones in particular, but because of a history, a lifetime of it. By saying this, I do not want to give the impression that I am defeated by it. Far from it, it makes me more determined to carry on for myself and for others that are affected by it. To speak out against that kind of treatment.
Some people may be of the opinion that I should just let it go, ignore it and move on. Perhaps grow thicker skin. Even if this was possible, I wouldn’t want to. I am an emotional person. I get hurt by insults and injustices and prejudice. That emotion drives me. It is what informs my creativity. If I didn’t have that anger or those tears, I fear I would lose the drive to create, to speak out, to speak up.
One of the things that has been increasingly disturbing to me is that when certain people comment here, the threads turn into marathons. Not because that discussion is more interesting or enlightening but because of the fight itself. I think of it like this. Say an argument starts on the street. As voices are raised in anger they bring attention to themselves. People stop and stare, anxiously waiting to see what might happen, perhaps even a little excited. Some might try and calm down the situation. To try and reason with the people involved. To resolve the argument. A few enjoy the adrenaline rush. The rest of us are preparing for flight.
So now it turns into a punch-up. The vast majority will get out of the way as quickly as possible, perhaps standing at a distance to watch. Our desire is to protect ourselves but still observe the outcome. There are those who will still try and break it up. There is a tiny minority of people who enjoy the fight itself and will wade in to throw a few punches for the hell of it. Nothing is resolved until someone backs down or is defeated. What disturbs me about this situation, apart from the violence and futility of it, is that the interest becomes focussed on the fight itself and the outcome rather than the dispute that started it.
Obviously this is an extreme parallel to draw. No one has been physically hurt here but you understand what I am getting at.
So what it comes down to, is that comment moderation is activated. This will not affect those who have written here before and are approved or to new commentors who follow the guidelines which are in the side-bar, but will give me the opportunity to see certain comments before they appear on the site.
I have said this before but just to reiterate: I do not want this blog to turn into a “well-done well-said” place. I want to encourage dialogue. Continue to comment. Put forward other points of view but keep it civil.
you know dd, the interesting thing is *who* keeps saying "just calm down" or "it’s just the internet" don’t take it so seriously. I’ve come across quite a few of those comments and i find them to be kinda insulting and patronizing…you/we’re supposed to calm down when people pull out racist aggressive garbage?
oh, the other thing was too, the idea that you need to keep your blog space open to vile comments so that others can "see" what the offensive stuff is or "learn" from it. I don’t think so on that too–basically that’s saying, let us see how much they hate black people, let us become voyeurs and marvel at the horror…you know? You don’t have to be abused to prove to others how vile and horrible humans can be to other humans. your blog is not the space to prove that racism exists.
One of the things that has been increasingly disturbing to me is that when certain people comment here, the threads turn into marathons. Not because that discussion is more interesting or enlightening but because of the fight itself.
Wow, Devious Diva, your blog is awesome, nice little toolbar even for comments!
Great post, we are definitely on the same page! This is what stands out to me:
One of the things that has been increasingly disturbing to me is that when certain people comment here, the threads turn into marathons. Not because that discussion is more interesting or enlightening but because of the fight itself.
This is what bothers me, and it used to bother me on boards when these discussions mostly took place on boards. If the threads were gigantic because there was really intelligent discussion taking place — even heated with much disagreement — that would be one thing. But that’s not really the case in these threads you and I are both talking about. Somebody comes in with something really egregiously hateful and then the battle is on, it’s become a trainwreck, it generates tons of heat and zero light.
And yes to what bfp said– I hate the way threads turn into havens for haters, where they can just, I don’t know, get off on seeing how many people hate just like they do and where they can see how much people are hurt by it. It’s sick really.
I think you are completely right to ban, moderate, whatever you have to do to protect your space and make it safe *for* good and productive discussions.
When a person has been subjected to brutalizing language - and has managed to not turn around and visit that brutality on others - I think it is easier to see that language for what it is and ban it.
In my observation the folks screaming the loudest about being banned are the ones who aren’t dialoguing in the first place. My blog is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. Just like my home.
Good for you for banning brutality.
I just have to put a little less than twopence worth in here. Jay, right on, if we have to live with the racist (etc.) crap from some of these people out in the real world, it makes no sense to put up with them on our blog turf as well. Discussions, yes, by all means, even hot ones. But it’s a matter of faux liberal thinking to suggest they have a ‘right’. I wouldn’t invite one of those people home for a cozy dinner, why should I let them advertise their poison on my personal web space.
DD, I may have said this before, but what the hell, you’re right to deal with that mob in the way you do. If anything you should have thrown them out a long time ago.
Good for you DD. I hate that these folks constantly try to dress their racist, sexist crap in the quise of "opposing viewpoints." Or better yet, you just don’t get their "humor." WTF-ever.
my two cents: zardoz
” generates tons of heat and zero light”.
i liked this quip better,, compared to your comments ms DD
….yes ,, i admit i am no better than the banned ones,,,
…i love ,, a fight,, in my mind ,, i believe,,
…i have a prerequsite in this life ,,to die some day
…..having offered ” SOME LIGHT ” in one way or another
…. whether by written word,, or by lungin in and swinging a few….
and by taking a stand in life,,over and over, and over .
..thats a personal note.
…but the word ,, that you preach here ,,needs heat ,,
and needs victims,, maybe even us,,,
.. in order for the newer generation
to understand better,
…the differences between darkness and light,
( and dont anybody get ecclisiastical on me.!)
which means what you write about is not always
deeply thought about in the general population,,
it is not felt,,,at least by all..
but thru the ensuing firefights the good will stay
… and their voices , will be heard elsewere,
….maybe multiply
….maybe were it counts.
thus to ban is one thing ,,
to want to find a paradise in blogland is another,,
if this is the case ….
…ill continue being just a humble reader,
… but to ” encourage dialogue”..?.?.?
dialogue does not come from peaceful ways….
and an encourageble one at that,,,
UNFORTUNETLY IT NEEDS ,, LIFES PASSIONS AS THEY ARE.
..stories of real people ,
moments to savoir..
times with people ,,different from each other
..yet on the same team
=z=
Well Diva, at the end of the day, I belive you have a great blog here and you blog about important issues and therefore it’s important you don’t allow certain commenters to deflect attention from this fact!
PS: Ladies and gentlemen, senors y senoras: 75€ (plus P&P) gets you a "I DD" t-shirt. Get one now before they are sold out!
What happened to the emocions? That should read "I love DD" t-shirt (I put a heart emocion in)
?
congrats on this new step,diva. i just wanted to say fuck anyone who tells you to get over it, ignore it, grow thicker skin or any other such privileged bullshit. so to those that have ever said it, this is vegankid say FUCK YOU!sorry to use your space to be mean, diva, i couldn’t help myself. bfp got me all emotional and shit over on her blog. that’s my excuse and i’m sticking to it. love ya, diva!btw, if you want to make it so that the dd haters website can’t link to you, just let me know and i’ll let you in on a little trick.
Hi Zardoz, always the mysterious. LOL. I agree with you, believe it or not. Passion and fire yes. Like I said many many people have crossed the line here and got angry and said things that do not help the discussion perhaps but…
" In all honesty, I like some commentors more than others"
And the commentors I like are not racist, sexist, homophobic etc. They are angry (and I do not just mean those on "my side") , yes. The issues are heated. Peoples attitudes are ingrained (mine included) People feel challenged and anger sometimes results. What I have tried to stress all along is not about swearing (even though I don’t particularly like it) or opposing views. This is about a very tiny group of people who I do not wish to engage with. These two or three people are racist. Fullstop. And I have wasted far too much time and energy trying to talk to people who hate me. If you ever have the misfortune of going to one of the blogs in question I think you would understand. Thanks as always for your comment. it’s always good to have people to challenge you.
Hey EllasDevil. LOL. I don’t know what’s going on with the emocions. The plugin is not without problems. Here it is with the smilie. Just for you.
DD. 
I
Can we make it cheaper though? Remember we’re supposed to be looneyliberaltreehuggingmarxistcommunists over here!
Hi vegankid. I know how you feel. I’ll talk to you about the link thing later. Thanks
Ionios dorikos, ( as if you deserve capitals!) Your comment is obnoxious and threatening and I do not appreciate your violent and disgusting overtones. Consider yourself banned and if I wasn’t so freakin’ polite, I would say so much more…
Do not come here again. You are sick.
DD, apologies for the length of this post, but I couldn’t find a link to it, and had typed it up for a friend, and thought you might be amused to read it …
“Last week I wrote a load of nonsense about flags and idiocy; as well as appearing in print, it also turned up on the Guardian’s “Comment is Free” blog-o-site, where passers-by are encouraged to scrawl their own responses beneath the original article.
Some people disagreed with the article, some agreed; some found it funny, some didn’t. For half a nano-second I was tempted to join in the discussion. And then I remembered that all internet debates, without exception, are entirely futile. So I didn’t.
There’s no point debating anything online. You might as well hurl shoes in the air to knock clouds from the sky. The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussions ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering.
Stumble in, take umbrage with someone, trade a few blows, and within two or three exchanges, the subject itself goes out of the window. Suddenly you’re simply arguing about arguing. Eventually one side gets bored, comes to its senses, or dies, and the row fizzles out: just another needless belch in the swirling online guffstorm.
But not for long, because online quarrelling is also addictive, in precisely the same way Tetris is addictive. It appeals to the “lab rat” part of your brain; the annoying irrepressible part that adores repetitive pointlessness and would gleefully make you pop bubble wrap till Doomsday if ever it got its way. An unfortunate few, hooked on the futile thrill of online debate, devote their lives to its cause. They roam the internet, actively seeking out viewpoints they disagree with, or squat on messageboards, whining, needling, sneering, over analysing each new proclamation – joylessly fiddling, like unhappy gorillas doomed to pick lice from one another’s fur for all eternity.
Still, it’s not all moan, moan, moan in NetLand. There’s also the occasional puerile splutter to liven things up.
In the debate sparked by my gibberish outpouring, it wasn’t long before rival posters began speculating about the size of their opponent’s dicks. It led me to wonder – has the world of science ever investigated a causal link between penis size and male political leaning?
I’d theorise that, on the whole, rightwing penises are short and stubby, hence their owner’s constant fury. Lefties, on the other hand, are spoiled for length, yet boast no girth whatsoever – which explains their pained confusion. I flit from one camp to the other, of course, which is why mine’s so massive it’s got a full-size human knee in the middle. And a back. A big man’s back.
Anyway, if we must debate things online, we might as well debate that. It’s not like we’ll ever resolve any of that other bullshit, is it?
Click. Mine is bigger than yours. Click. No it isn’t. Click. Yes it is. Click. Refresh, repost, repeat to fade.”
Charlie Brooker in the Guardian on Friday.