We hate DD
Published by deviousdiva May 30th, 2006 in Personal.Last night I discovered a little “We hate Devious Diva” club. Fair enough. There’s nothing I can do about that. Although it is great to be appreciated, I do not blog for approval or love or respect. I have that in my real life.
I have hosted some difficult discussions here and I think it is obvious to anyone that reads them that I have always allowed people with opposing views to comment. Here is my response to someone who accused me of shutting them up on a previous thread:
I have let this discussion run and run and as I pointed out this conversation is WAY off track. The original thread was about the Muslim woman standing as a candidate in Northeren Greece. What I am saying at this point is, enough is enough. People have become abusive towards each other and that is NOT a discussion. I draw the line at personal insults towards myself and anyone else on this blog. And I don’t care who started it and who joined in and who said what. Just that I don’t like it and it doesn’t help dialogue. There will be no notices of “only like-minded people can comment”. I have never closed down an argument where people are debating uncomfortable issues. You would know that if you read more of this blog.
As Scruffy American pointed out, one of the problems here is that a couple of blogs that some of you frequent have closed down (or are a little slow at the moment) and I feel you have brought your arguments over here so you can continue them. I haven’t seen some of you here for such a long time that I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you are back here now. I could be wrong, but thats how it feels to me.
I am not even going to talk about which issues I can or cannot blog about. We have been over that many times in the past. Just get used to it or please find other blogs that are more to your taste. I write what I write. That is my right. It is also your right to get yourself a blog. Do not expect me to be jumping over there though, telling you that you cannot write about problems and issues in England just because I am English.
Personally, I would prefer not to play the role of big bad controlling babysitter, but if these comments disintegrate to the point where people are afraid to speak up for fear of being insulted and swiped at, then it is up to me to put a stop to it. I have not deleted comments that criticise me personally or my writing or your negative opinions about my blog. I am sure people are able to judge for themselves, so I am not going to waste anymore of my time justifying myself against false accusations
To the “We hate DD” club. You know who you are:
Hermes: Fine. So you don’t like my “monstrosity” of a blog and you are in favour of deporting me (LOL). Regrettably, I have allowed you a platform here for your views for a long time. Now that you have found a better niche for yourself (and especially now that the other blog you hang out at is re-opening), that is the end of our “discussions”
Demonax: Although I knew what your views were about me and the issues I write about, I let you comment too. I am not going to beat myself up about letting you do that but it won’t happen again.
Ethno: You wrote: “I do enjoy traumatizing them” That says it all to me.
I know that you can post comments using different names but I am still hopeful that you can summon up enough respect for a fellow human being, however inferior you judge her to be, to stop posting here.
Aside: Sunni Side Up. The first time you posted a comment here, I replied “Do I know you ? You sound familiar?” Of course, it’s impossible to remember everyone you come across but I was right wasn’t I? You have a different tag here and elsewhere.
You wrote: “I had very ignoble and personal reasons for goading DD, but have got over them”
I guess I will never know what those reasons were.
Just so that we are clear because I have wasted enough time and effort on all this:
Hermes, Demonax and Ethno are no longer welcome to comment on my blog.
Apologies to everyone else who reads here regularly for this post aimed at just a few people, but I felt the need to address them publicly. I am taking a short break from blogging, just a day or two. I will be checking comments though. Normal service will resume shortly.
Devious, i’m a proud member of the "we love dd club"–i have been since the day i started reading your site. xo
The only bad thing about banning Ethno, Hermes and Dem. is that now with them gone everyone will pick on me. I kind of like having people around that no one likes. It let’s me join in on the fun, and still say my stuff without too much negative comments since everyone is bashing those Three folks.
But, alas, everyone will start back on me now, "The Pro-American Government, make fun of Greeks (in a polite, fun way) , President Bush’s # 1 Fan".
Hey, at least I’m not banned!
Apologies, I did not know this Blog thing was so serious. If it provides any comfort I say similar things to Ethno and Demonax. Obviously, said in jest to everyone because I do not know you personally.
I was just about to say the same as brownfemipower! Count me in as a member of the love DD club
Diva don’t let those people bug you. Good riddance to ‘em.
Having said that, it’s hard to understand why they picked on you as their bugbear. I’ve been far nastier to them than you have. If anyone’s interested in scoping out some of eth’s humiliation fantasies, check out deviousdiva’s archives (I think ‘Sickened’ was the last time we chatted, wasn’t it? There are others, and on Seawitch too.) It’s kind of weird he chose your blog to show off his 4-year-old temperament & stomp off so many times. Childhood trauma moves in mysterious ways. Someday I’d like to know what on earth he has against cats. Anyway, I confess that the reason I engaged with Herm last week was partly out of guilt for being so snarly to one or two of your posters the day before.
The point is, you don’t go looking for fights, diva. Every time, the fight has come to you and you’ve hosted their awful opinions with all the best intentions. I think you’ve shown these people far more courtesy than they deserve.
Mea culpa – to a certain extent.
I’m sorry to hear that I’ve been banned. I was in fact in self-imposed exile, having decided, since the Differences thread (12-13 May) that the debate – if this is what it was – was degenerating into personal abuse, which has no value – other than as a cheap source of entertainment.
You are banning me, I presume, for the following comment on another site in which I described TINMC as “a ridiculous blog by a narcissistic, virulently anti-Greek black feminist who dares to comment on Greek affairs and who sometimes is fun to wind up”.
As a means of explanation to assuage your justified anger, your legitimate feeling that you have been taken advantage of and people have been talking snidishly behind your back, I offer this:
The above comments were written in the heat of that ugly Differences debate. (At one point, one of your friends called me an ‘English wanker’ – it is, of course, deeply insulting for someone like me, who considers himself to be an inordinate Greek patriot, to be called ‘English’).
In the cold light of day, I would take back the following:
I would not describe your site as ‘ridiculous’. It does bring up worthwhile and interesting topics for debate, especially in relation to race. Having been born and brought up in England – where all aspects of culture and daily life, I would argue, are overdetermined by race, where the most significant cleavages that exist in society relate to race – white/non-white; immigrant/non-immigrant; English/non-English and so on – I am especially interested in racism and its consequences. For those of you not aware of the degree of racism in England, I would refer you to this brilliant piece by Salman Rushdie – http://www.english.ccsu.edu/he.....empire.htm – which although written in 1982 is as relevant today as it was then.
I have said directly to you than I think your blog has a tendency towards narcissism. I don’t withdraw this. It is possible that all people who obsess about race – including me – display narcissistic characteristics.
To describe you as ‘virulently anti-Greek’ is hyperbole. I withdraw virulently; though I do maintain that you tend to see Greek affairs through a prism imported from England that misses what is most important in contemporary Greek politics and society, which, in my opinion, is the Turkish threat and the erosion of Greek national identity in favour of some fake, meaningless, wishy-washy, touchy-feely, globalised identity. I have tried to point out to you that Greece and Greeks have had 800 years, on and off, of colonial oppression and you simply cannot judge the country in the same way as you would France, England, the USA, Germany, etc.
You are a black feminist – or someone who at least promotes black feminism – so I don’t see how my description of you as such can be offensive.
‘Dares to comment on Greek affairs’. I had this out with you on the Differences thread, in which I accused you of making remarks about Greek history and society without the appropriate knowledge.
‘Who is sometimes fun to wind up’. Again, this is hyperbole. While some of my comments are deliberately provocative, they are all in earnest.
Finally, you keep accusing people of migrating to your site because of the (temporary) closure of Phylax. You do yourself a disservice, assuming that your blog is not worth reading in its own right. Personally, I began to comment on Phylax and TINMC round about the same time, and I don’t see why you would have a problem with people commenting on both blogs. Scruffy comments on both blogs – although he always says the same thing: Greece is awful, America is paradise on earth.
Devious, I think if anything the negative reactions you get from people are <i>complimentary</i> - albeit in a weird twisted way.
Assuming you are blogging to raise awareness/educate on issues you find important, the fact that you are getting these kinds of reactions shows that you are saying things that are hitting a nerve with the very people who need the most eye-opening. If what you were saying didn’t trouble them so much, they would probably just ignore you. But because they feel their value systems and beliefs are under attack, they are compelled to fight back - sometimes nastily.
Maybe you’re not succeeding in actually breaking any walls down, but you’re certainly making the foundations tremble a bit. So take it as a sign that you are doing your job right. And, while I can understand your banning people for the reasons described, or ending posts when the discussion becomes entirely non-productive and people start slinging insults around, I just hope that this will not result in us being left only with people who go around patting each other on the backs saying "Yes, you’re so right" in reply to every comment.
I don’t comment much on your blog because (to my discredit) I am usually not informed enough on the issues to have an opinion. But believe me, I enjoy reading it, not only because of your choice of topics, (which are excellent) but also because you do attract so many people with opposing views. And even the arguments I find entirely ridiculous are helpul, first because some arguments, before being tested, can sound compelling but just don’t hold water when attacked - therefore putting them under a microscope shows up all their flaws and weaknesses and actually supports the point you were trying to get across. Second because it forces those with good arguments to hone their thoughts on whatever the subject may be, and generates new ideas and so on.
So by the time I’m done reading your post and the comments that follow, I’m usually able to start forming an opinion on the subject. (Thank god!)
Which is why I too would like to count myself a member of the ‘we love DD fan club’! But just remember - the more they kick back, the more it means you’re hurting them!
I will be back later or tomorrow to answer comments.
BTW. You are not that clever, tomcat.
I’m in on the I love DD club!
Μα ποσο μ_λ_κ_ς πρεπει νασαι για να φας πορτα,
και απο γυναικα ,,κιολας
Ειστε σαν κατι πρωην φιλους μου,, πολυ παλια.
που την πρωτη φορα που καναν ερωτα (γ_μ_σ_ν)
βιαστηκαν να το ανακοινωσουν φαρδια ,,πλατια
σε κοσμο,,ικανοποιημενη για το πιο “φυσικο κατορθωμα”
ξεφτυλιζοντας τις κοπελες τις παρεας ,,του σχολιου…….
Αυτοι βεβαια ειχαν την ατυχια ,,οτι τους ακουσα
να προσβαλουν τις ερωτικες συντροφους,,
αλλα και τους ευατους τους,,
και η γροθια μου ,,βρηκε στοχο την μουρη τους
για να θυμουνται ,την μ_λ_κ_α που τους εδερνε..
Εσεις κυριοι ,δεν φτανει που εχετε αποψεις ,που τουλαχιστον
σ’αυτο το μπλογκ σας ΑΝΕΧΟΝΤΑΙ,,, αλλα ειστε κ τοσο
….”ΚΟΥΤΟΠΟΝΗΡΟΓΑΜΟΣΤΑΥΡΟΙ”…………
……………………. που το ανακοινωνεται ,,
………………………………κιολας σε αλλα μπλογκ
γιαυτο παρτε τα α_χ_δ_α μιας ντιβας,,τωρα ,,για να θυμαστε.
——————————– =zardoz=
p.s.
as for you scruffy,,
REMEMBER that all armed soldiers ,especially americans,
in a country other than their own,, ARE ALL KILLERS.
ALL AMERICANS UNARMED,,in civilian clothing,,
are either very welcome tourists,,in greece
or embassy personel..lukewarm welcome
or cia and such …..typicaly not welcome and “persona non grata”
if caught in my neighborhood.
Maybe we should send an armed greek brigade to NEWPORT,CALIFORNIA,, to defend the nearby SEQOUIA FOREST
from global warming…and what the hell if we shoot ,,anybodys
mom. or brother..or dog ..it will be in the name of freedom,,
and democracy for the trees,,and if we die on foreign soil (california)
maybe theyll honor us at ARLINGTON having sacrificed our
lives to honor the woods we have responsibility to pass on
to next generations,,,,i wonder what the afgani,iraqi,civilazation
will pass on to the next generation as their culture…….
OH WAIT,,, I KNOW PLENTY OF HATE …and for guess who..?
the iranians ,,wont have anything to pass on ,,the “good old united states ” will nuke’em … most us here in greece will die of radiation
burns and poisening…BUT GYESS what the ACROPOLIS PARTHENON
will stand some more centuries,, maybe the chinese …can inherit it.
ANYWAYS ,, scruffy ,,i know how you think,, you see i used
to think ,,just like you……thats why i think there’s still hope,,
for you and others like you,, …….like me.
——————————–
Ms DD
if you feel ,like deleting ,,hack away ..
i cant translate at this time ,,,
cant say in english ,,what my meaning is in greek.
too tired .
thank you =Z=
zardoz, i love that you post in greek and wish that i didn’t have to have a translation!!!!
I actually like DD too and some of the subject matter is interesting. Apart from using the word ‘gyftoi’ which I did not know had fallen into disrepute in Hellas (I have not lived there for over 10 years) I do not think I have said anything offensive. If I said anything on another blog then it should be understood in the context of that blog and the way I may communicate with those people i.e. a different sense of humour. I may have disagreed with some people but I said nothing offensive. On the contrary, in the face of some insults I have been gentlemanly. Also, apart from being a member of a small Greek island association I am not a member of any club.
The whole blogging is interesting. People seem to take it much more seriously than I thought they would i.e. being banned. But I am still learning. Blogging raises many new questions regarding power, diffusion of truth and untruth, hierarchy, personal relationships, debate, intimacy and the generation of ideas.
Again apologies DD. Yiassas
Heheh… good anecdote, zardoz. (Although I don’t think anybody has ever gotten laid because of deviousdiva’s blog. Well, maybe diva herself.) You make the point quite clearly: the net is composed of real people. Show at least the rudiments of respect. It’s foolish to view comments made in a public space as somehow confidential.
Especially if your views are at such odds with the blog owner’s. Diva is not obligated by anything other than her good nature to let you state your case. Why should she let you use her space while all the time you’re talking shit about her?
I thought you guys were manly men, Vikings and Argonauts and Leni Riefenstahl portraits and so on. Turns out y’all are just a bunch of gossipy old hens. Fascist ones at that.
Zardoz man, I’m fast becoming a fan of yours. I like your panache. Also that you THINK. No mean feat that these days. You’re welcome to my house and my whisky anytime brother. Keep on doing it.
OH AND BY THE WAY,DD
You can definitely count me in as a fan club member. All power to your pen (albeit virtual). It can indeed be mightier than the sword. And, lest we forget, those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword.
All love to you.
Seriously, are the "I hate DD" people in grade school? I thought everyone here was an adult. I guess I was mistaken.It doesn’t really matter what these people think, except to the extent that they are the ones who keep the world from changing.There are plenty of us who are glad you are here, DD.
I agree with melusina and kassandra. I’m not as well informed on Greek issues as I would like to be, but this blog keeps me up to date and thinking. Unfortunately, I think there is something about internet forums that makes adults feel that they are justified in acting like self righteous children. Bleh.
Keep writing!
Diva,
You have brought forth a number of very controversial issues on your blog that has resulted often with informative discussion (for me at least). Unfortunately due to the anonymity of the Internet, there have been a number of discussions that have degraded from an exchange of ideas to exchange of insults. I call those threads "death spirals."
I find it unfortunate that you feel it necessary to band certain people, as there are those who’s views closer to your own who (my opinion of course) are just as guilty with regards to mudslinging.
My only question/suggestion would be to close a comments section if things became out of hand. Though I don’t agree with everything Ethnocentrist says, I do appreciate his foundation of actual research. I have yet to see anyone debate his sources in a constructive manner.
Just my opinion.
Respectfully, Kosta
Sorry to intrude, but you should all meet in a cafe, by the beach, to talk about all those things, while you drink a cold beer, an iced tea… People are allways nicer in person and expressing oneselves is much easier. Blogs are the worst place to meet and chat with people. But I like your blog, Diva. It’s important to say the things you say.
DD, my reasons were "personal", that is, personal to me, and did not have anything to do with you (I don’t know you, have never met you and live thousands of miles away) … and I got over them and am ashamed of them now. Oh, and laugh about it too. If I was less than disrespectful to you, then it was wrong of me and I apologise. I used this name as a sort of joke (to myself) but have now abandoned it for good. I’ll stick with my other identity. And I do so agree with Caramelo (with no disrespect to you or your blog, of course). I imagine a lot of people who hang out here would prefer to meet for real in a cafe, but our lives and responsibilities make that difficult.
Card-carrying member of the "Lovin’ DD Fan Club, North American Chapter."
All I can say is, you must be doing something right if all these morons feel so threatened by your words. Either that, or you have a bunch of adolescents ganging up on you: this is the kind of crap my middle school students do to each other on MySpace.com.
So keep on doing whatever you do that pisses them off.
Coming in late as always - why am i always behind on these discussions - i know how this shit feels but you are strong - we are all strong and no matter what is thrown at us it will bounce off - people are threatened by the truth - people think they can say shit and get away with it. Its not about you it about their own lies to themselves. keep strong I am with you and sorry I am so late in saying so