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	<title>Comments on: NEW DOCUMENTARY</title>
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	<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/</link>
	<description>The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: scarf +</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15372</link>
		<dc:creator>scarf +</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15372</guid>
		<description>'mikres odyssies is on Thursdays at 7:30, I think there are 12 episodes scheduled.

Last night's program looked at a young Albanian hip-hop musician who raps in Albanian and Greek.  He's a great kid, looks a bit like John Turturro.  He told how he came to Greece for the first time - he'd damaged his eye in an explosion in Albania, needed an operation fast, crossed the mountains with his father;  the Greek soldiers who caught them ended up helping them get to a hospital, even gave them a little money, the operation was a success.  Then later he got his lights punched out by some Greek policemen and lost the eye for good.  Arban tells the whole story without bitterness, it's just the way things happen sometimes.  His rap lyrics also describe hardship and loss, country and πατρίδα with no trace of self-pity.

The second half of the program focussed on Yorgos, a Greek who immigrated to Germany and eventually Belgium in the late 50s.  He worked a lot of crummy jobs for years, and is now a high-ranking official in one of the EU's social policy departments.

Neither of the stories are rags-to-riches, they don't have a tidy arc.  The characters aren't pushing their political agendas, if they have any.  And there's a lot more that could have been said about these characters if the director had put in a narration track  - instead, everything is told by the characters themselves.  I think it's more honest that way too.

Clarifying what I said earlier - the director believes that if there is such a thing as the 'immigrant experience', it can only be described through individual stories.</description>
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<p>&#8216;mikres odyssies is on Thursdays at 7:30, I think there are 12 episodes scheduled.</p>
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<p>Last night&#8217;s program looked at a young Albanian hip-hop musician who raps in Albanian and Greek.  He&#8217;s a great kid, looks a bit like John Turturro.  He told how he came to Greece for the first time - he&#8217;d damaged his eye in an explosion in Albania, needed an operation fast, crossed the mountains with his father;  the Greek soldiers who caught them ended up helping them get to a hospital, even gave them a little money, the operation was a success.  Then later he got his lights punched out by some Greek policemen and lost the eye for good.  Arban tells the whole story without bitterness, it&#8217;s just the way things happen sometimes.  His rap lyrics also describe hardship and loss, country and πατρίδα with no trace of self-pity.</p>
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<p>The second half of the program focussed on Yorgos, a Greek who immigrated to Germany and eventually Belgium in the late 50s.  He worked a lot of crummy jobs for years, and is now a high-ranking official in one of the EU&#8217;s social policy departments.</p>
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<p>Neither of the stories are rags-to-riches, they don&#8217;t have a tidy arc.  The characters aren&#8217;t pushing their political agendas, if they have any.  And there&#8217;s a lot more that could have been said about these characters if the director had put in a narration track  - instead, everything is told by the characters themselves.  I think it&#8217;s more honest that way too.</p>
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<p>Clarifying what I said earlier - the director believes that if there is such a thing as the &#8216;immigrant experience&#8217;, it can only be described through individual stories.
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		<title>By: zardoz</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15371</link>
		<dc:creator>zardoz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15371</guid>
		<description>when is it scarf+....?</description>
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<p>when is it scarf+&#8230;.?
</p>
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		<title>By: scarf +</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15370</link>
		<dc:creator>scarf +</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15370</guid>
		<description>The director of 'mikres odyssies' is Marco Gastine, a French director who's lived in Greece since the 80s.  His film 'Marseille: Distant Daughter' (or 'Marseille: A Greek Profile' depending which language it's translated from) won first prize at the Thessaloniki film festival last year.

His work is not especially political, it's more in the tradition of documentary storytelling.  He believes all immigrants' stories are individual - that there is no generalized 'immigrant experience.'  It's a fascinating point of view.

Please watch it!</description>
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<p>The director of &#8216;mikres odyssies&#8217; is Marco Gastine, a French director who&#8217;s lived in Greece since the 80s.  His film &#8216;Marseille: Distant Daughter&#8217; (or &#8216;Marseille: A Greek Profile&#8217; depending which language it&#8217;s translated from) won first prize at the Thessaloniki film festival last year.</p>
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<p>His work is not especially political, it&#8217;s more in the tradition of documentary storytelling.  He believes all immigrants&#8217; stories are individual - that there is no generalized &#8216;immigrant experience.&#8217;  It&#8217;s a fascinating point of view.</p>
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<p>Please watch it!
</p>
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		<title>By: zardoz</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15369</link>
		<dc:creator>zardoz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15369</guid>
		<description>XMMM,,

  MISSED ALL TH FUN I SEE,

  GOD DAMN CHOLESTOROL (FROM EASTER SUNDAYS LAMB).

  GIVING ME A HARD TIME,,

  SEE THAT YOURE HAVING HARD TIMES

  WITH EX  SPANISH  ARISTOCRATS  

  NO WORRY, 

  IM POLISHING UP ,,,,   ... THE GUILLOTINE.!

  SORRY I MISSED HIM THE FIRST TIME

  COULDVE HAD TAKEN NECK MEASUREMENTS.


  BUT  YOURE TARGET PRACTICE 
  WITH THE DLETE BLASTER WEAPON 
  IS GOING WELL I SEE.
  CONGRATULATIONS ,
  KEEP IT UP, YOULL FEEL BETTER
  AT THE END OF THE DAY.


  ==== Z ====</description>
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<p>XMMM,,</p>
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<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  MISSED ALL TH FUN I SEE,</p>
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<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  GOD DAMN CHOLESTOROL (FROM EASTER SUNDAYS LAMB).</p>
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<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  GIVING ME A HARD TIME,,</p>
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<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  SEE THAT YOURE HAVING HARD TIMES</p>
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<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  WITH EX  SPANISH  ARISTOCRATS  </p>
</div>
<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  NO WORRY, </p>
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<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  IM POLISHING UP ,,,,   &#8230; THE GUILLOTINE.!</p>
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<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  SORRY I MISSED HIM THE FIRST TIME</p>
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<p>  COULDVE HAD TAKEN NECK MEASUREMENTS.</p>
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<p>  BUT  YOURE TARGET PRACTICE<br />
  WITH THE DLETE BLASTER WEAPON<br />
  IS GOING WELL I SEE.<br />
  CONGRATULATIONS ,<br />
  KEEP IT UP, YOULL FEEL BETTER<br />
  AT THE END OF THE DAY.</p>
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<div title='Click to quote this paragraph' class='clickquote'>
<p>  ==== Z ====
</p>
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		<title>By: Numptie</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15368</link>
		<dc:creator>Numptie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15368</guid>
		<description>Nice one Diva - yes it does feel so good doesn't it?</description>
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<p>Nice one Diva - yes it does feel so good doesn&#8217;t it?
</p>
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15367</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15367</guid>
		<description>Thanks Numptie. I did it and it feels goooood.

Anyone who&#39;s interested in &#34;What the Troll said&#34; and wishes to respond, head over to http://numptiesnest.blogspot.com/2006/04/and-i-thought-i-was-getting-hard-time.html</description>
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<p>Thanks Numptie. I did it and it feels goooood.</p>
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<p>Anyone who&#39;s interested in &quot;What the Troll said&quot; and wishes to respond, head over to <a href="http://numptiesnest.blogspot.com/2006/04/and-i-thought-i-was-getting-hard-time.html" rel="nofollow">http://numptiesnest.blogspot.c.....-time.html</a>
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		<title>By: Numptie</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15366</link>
		<dc:creator>Numptie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15366</guid>
		<description>OK, I have cooled down a little now; I cannot respond adequately to this evil bugger's remarks but one thing stands out above all else "there are too many F O R E I G N E R S in Spain"; ok so this is what 'it' thinks, so why don't we all go someplace other than Spain for our holidays and see what that does to the Spanish economy. This idiot doesn't like "foreigners" in his country and most of us don't want to be where we are not liked, so we stay away - QED.</description>
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<p>OK, I have cooled down a little now; I cannot respond adequately to this evil bugger&#8217;s remarks but one thing stands out above all else &#8220;there are too many F O R E I G N E R S in Spain&#8221;; ok so this is what &#8216;it&#8217; thinks, so why don&#8217;t we all go someplace other than Spain for our holidays and see what that does to the Spanish economy. This idiot doesn&#8217;t like &#8220;foreigners&#8221; in his country and most of us don&#8217;t want to be where we are not liked, so we stay away - QED.
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		<title>By: Numptie</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15365</link>
		<dc:creator>Numptie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15365</guid>
		<description>Most definitely Diva, by leaving it there you are sending this evil bugger the wrong message, by deleting it you are saying "this is my space, I make the rules, and I don't want your kind here!". Plus the fact that it has been there long enough now for anyone whos is going to react against it to know just what they are commenting on; detlete, delete, thrice delete...</description>
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<p>Most definitely Diva, by leaving it there you are sending this evil bugger the wrong message, by deleting it you are saying &#8220;this is my space, I make the rules, and I don&#8217;t want your kind here!&#8221;. Plus the fact that it has been there long enough now for anyone whos is going to react against it to know just what they are commenting on; detlete, delete, thrice delete&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15364</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15364</guid>
		<description>I will be deleting from now on. Unfortunately this idiot got through while I was away from here for a while and people had already responded. Should I delete comments like this even when there has been such a reaction against it? I'm not sure.</description>
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<p>I will be deleting from now on. Unfortunately this idiot got through while I was away from here for a while and people had already responded. Should I delete comments like this even when there has been such a reaction against it? I&#8217;m not sure.
</p>
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		<title>By: Numptie</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15363</link>
		<dc:creator>Numptie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15363</guid>
		<description>People like that are simply impossible, the only thing to do with them is delete them, as I have found with some of the English nationalists. I think they are on another planet completely and are just looking for any opportunity to spout their vile filth. This is exactly why I split form the BondBloke blog so that I coul;d attack them on my own terms without having to worry about others, and it seems to be working. Hang on in there Diva and delete, delete, delete...

I agree with David, I find the same with the loonies who visit me the grammar, syntax and spelling are simply stupendous (stupendously awful that is).</description>
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<p>People like that are simply impossible, the only thing to do with them is delete them, as I have found with some of the English nationalists. I think they are on another planet completely and are just looking for any opportunity to spout their vile filth. This is exactly why I split form the BondBloke blog so that I coul;d attack them on my own terms without having to worry about others, and it seems to be working. Hang on in there Diva and delete, delete, delete&#8230;</p>
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<p>I agree with David, I find the same with the loonies who visit me the grammar, syntax and spelling are simply stupendous (stupendously awful that is).
</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15362</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15362</guid>
		<description>Man, your troll really had me going there for a minute.  What brilliant satire.  What wit.  The writer even throws in a bunch of bad grammar and syntax, just to make himself sound extra stupid.  This must have taken a LOT of thought and effort, just to sound this inane and ridiculous.</description>
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<p>Man, your troll really had me going there for a minute.  What brilliant satire.  What wit.  The writer even throws in a bunch of bad grammar and syntax, just to make himself sound extra stupid.  This must have taken a LOT of thought and effort, just to sound this inane and ridiculous.
</p>
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		<title>By: Daffodil</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15361</link>
		<dc:creator>Daffodil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15361</guid>
		<description>I agree about the law.  There's not much wrong with the laws in place (except the Dublin Convention which was a fantasy which, fortunately for the likes of Greece and less conveniently for the UK, doesn't work).  Trouble is 

(1)  governments don't all respect the law - I'll leave others to comment on Greece's recognition rates for UN Convention refugees and those asking for humanitarian protection - or consider the law outdated and unworkable.

(2)  people don't respect the law either - because they want a better life/more money.  I might do the same in their shoes though I'd like to imagine I'd stay and fight to improve the situation in my own country.

It's always struck me as bizarre that when friends emigrate from Europe to, say Australia or the US, we pat them on the back, encourage them, visit them, envy them, admire them, but we find it difficult when the boot is on the other foot and people seeking the same betterment come to Europe.  

I haven't got a pat answer.  I'd rather see workable laws properly enforced which would mean quick transparent decisions on status even if that involved a limited period of detention in a processing centre (with access to lawyers, interpretors, health care and education) and which would include effective forced repatriation of those who break the laws.  Waiting for a decision is killing.</description>
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<p>I agree about the law.  There&#8217;s not much wrong with the laws in place (except the Dublin Convention which was a fantasy which, fortunately for the likes of Greece and less conveniently for the UK, doesn&#8217;t work).  Trouble is </p>
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<p>(1)  governments don&#8217;t all respect the law - I&#8217;ll leave others to comment on Greece&#8217;s recognition rates for UN Convention refugees and those asking for humanitarian protection - or consider the law outdated and unworkable.</p>
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<p>(2)  people don&#8217;t respect the law either - because they want a better life/more money.  I might do the same in their shoes though I&#8217;d like to imagine I&#8217;d stay and fight to improve the situation in my own country.</p>
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<p>It&#8217;s always struck me as bizarre that when friends emigrate from Europe to, say Australia or the US, we pat them on the back, encourage them, visit them, envy them, admire them, but we find it difficult when the boot is on the other foot and people seeking the same betterment come to Europe.  </p>
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<p>I haven&#8217;t got a pat answer.  I&#8217;d rather see workable laws properly enforced which would mean quick transparent decisions on status even if that involved a limited period of detention in a processing centre (with access to lawyers, interpretors, health care and education) and which would include effective forced repatriation of those who break the laws.  Waiting for a decision is killing.
</p>
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15360</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15360</guid>
		<description>Thank you for clarifying Daffodil (I like Dandelion too). I perhaps unfortunately, do not find his comments funny. He accuses me of child abuse! Of being somehow connected to murderers, criminals and the mafia. Of not being able to dress properly! That my compatriots (whatever that means?) are unhygienic and that "immigrants are basically like the flies that suck on rotting meat"

Not even a titter from me I'm afraid. He has already stated (this could be fantasy) that he is in politics. I find that threatening and I am not an immigrant. I am English and  I am free to live anywhere in Europe I choose. Thankfully. Imagine how I would feel if I WAS an immigrant?  He is against me because of what I look like (non-European? non-Mediterranean? non-white?) not what I am. And that really sucks. 

Countries ARE allowed to set their laws and rules as they see fit. All I ask, all I have ever asked, is that you make it clear. If European laws that you have signed up for, says that people have a legitimate right to seek work, asylum, refugee status here then that's their right under the law. If you want to change that, change it. Change it legally and make it clear that that's the new law. Otherwise, get over it. Immigrants are here legally and properly and you are just going to have to get used to it.

What worries me about people like the troll above is that his tabloid comments are becoming more and more common and that the BNP and other nationalist parties are benefitting. 

It's really not funny.</description>
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<p>Thank you for clarifying Daffodil (I like Dandelion too). I perhaps unfortunately, do not find his comments funny. He accuses me of child abuse! Of being somehow connected to murderers, criminals and the mafia. Of not being able to dress properly! That my compatriots (whatever that means?) are unhygienic and that &#8220;immigrants are basically like the flies that suck on rotting meat&#8221;</p>
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<p>Not even a titter from me I&#8217;m afraid. He has already stated (this could be fantasy) that he is in politics. I find that threatening and I am not an immigrant. I am English and  I am free to live anywhere in Europe I choose. Thankfully. Imagine how I would feel if I WAS an immigrant?  He is against me because of what I look like (non-European? non-Mediterranean? non-white?) not what I am. And that really sucks. </p>
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<p>Countries ARE allowed to set their laws and rules as they see fit. All I ask, all I have ever asked, is that you make it clear. If European laws that you have signed up for, says that people have a legitimate right to seek work, asylum, refugee status here then that&#8217;s their right under the law. If you want to change that, change it. Change it legally and make it clear that that&#8217;s the new law. Otherwise, get over it. Immigrants are here legally and properly and you are just going to have to get used to it.</p>
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<p>What worries me about people like the troll above is that his tabloid comments are becoming more and more common and that the BNP and other nationalist parties are benefitting. </p>
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<p>It&#8217;s really not funny.
</p>
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		<title>By: Daffodil</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15359</link>
		<dc:creator>Daffodil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15359</guid>
		<description>I think I'll change my name to Dandelion rather than Daffodil because it makes me laugh so much ...  

No, seriously, it is funny, isn't it, or is it just me? That some inadequate angry red-faced, screwed up, immature little person would need to spend so long trying to get his message across on your blog is not just funny, it's hysterical. 

I could be more provocative and say that he does have a point, though.  Nations can only accommodate so many outsiders - few would advocate a complete Open Doors policy.  It is a pity he put his views in such an extreme manner rather than encouraging a real debate about immigration - who should be allowed in and in what numbers?  Every country has to decide those questions, keeping the majority on board, and reactions like that of Mr Indignant should make those in government wonder whether they've drawn the line at the right place.  At least, that is what is happening in the UK right now with fears of BNP benefitting from disillusionment with Labour party policies resulting in Tony Blair's immediate attempt to claw back hearts and minds.</description>
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<p>I think I&#8217;ll change my name to Dandelion rather than Daffodil because it makes me laugh so much &#8230;  </p>
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<p>No, seriously, it is funny, isn&#8217;t it, or is it just me? That some inadequate angry red-faced, screwed up, immature little person would need to spend so long trying to get his message across on your blog is not just funny, it&#8217;s hysterical. </p>
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<p>I could be more provocative and say that he does have a point, though.  Nations can only accommodate so many outsiders - few would advocate a complete Open Doors policy.  It is a pity he put his views in such an extreme manner rather than encouraging a real debate about immigration - who should be allowed in and in what numbers?  Every country has to decide those questions, keeping the majority on board, and reactions like that of Mr Indignant should make those in government wonder whether they&#8217;ve drawn the line at the right place.  At least, that is what is happening in the UK right now with fears of BNP benefitting from disillusionment with Labour party policies resulting in Tony Blair&#8217;s immediate attempt to claw back hearts and minds.
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15358</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/04/24/new-documentary/#comment-15358</guid>
		<description>Could I just ask a question, Daffodil, why is this funny? I don't mean to be insulting to you but I just cannot see anything funny about this mans comments. 


Fake name... in the guidelines I asked you to read I wrote:

"Please give yourself a name. Use a fake one. I don't care. I really get tired &lt;b&gt;talking to anonymous &lt;/b&gt;and the discussion gets confusing when there are so many about." 

Seeing as you already gave yourself a name why make up another one?

Deleting begins from now.</description>
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<p>Could I just ask a question, Daffodil, why is this funny? I don&#8217;t mean to be insulting to you but I just cannot see anything funny about this mans comments. </p>
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<p>Fake name&#8230; in the guidelines I asked you to read I wrote:</p>
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<p>&#8220;Please give yourself a name. Use a fake one. I don&#8217;t care. I really get tired <b>talking to anonymous </b>and the discussion gets confusing when there are so many about.&#8221; </p>
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<p>Seeing as you already gave yourself a name why make up another one?</p>
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<p>Deleting begins from now.
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