Guess Cato’s intimidated by intelligent women . heehee.

…..most trolls are.

“Do I allow these laws (what part have women - historically - played in law making, and dare I suggest that these laws perhaps were put in place in order to protect white male privilege?) to restrict the way I think about the world and the possibilities there are to change things for the better? No, I don’t. If someone is rude and/or threatening towards me, I walk away - and this I call: being assertive. If someone is rude and/or threatening towards me and I walk away - I am not censoring them, neither am I robbing them of their freedom of speech.

Sorry, I don’t quite follow. Are you raising the question that freedom of speech might be just another pillar of white male privilege? Are you implying that some form of feminism can provide a superior alternative? That’s….well, that’s just silly.

As for walking away…look, B. I don’t know you, maybe I didn’t quite get your point, and I honestly wish you all the best of luck with your blog, but for fuck’s sake get real. Walking away is NOT being assertive. It’s cowardice.

The thing that bothers diva and the rest of the bloghosts on this thread is that deleting comments feels like a violent act. It’s striking out someone’s voice and erasing their thoughts. Some people get a control thrill out of doing stuff like that, but mostly it is not something that feels fair or good. I am not a pacifist, but I believe that violence is completely unpredictable and quite often the outcomes are final. For those of us with nagging doubts about almost everything, deleting comments is too extreme as a policy and it is no way to live.

But deleting comments really is one way to fight. Writing a response to a post is another. There’s a time and place for both.

Sometimes there’s a point where it becomes obvious that a poster is not interested in ideas, is not interested in listening, is only using your space to rant and express anger and hostility at the world. That’s when deleting comments does the world a favour, but it’s not so easy to always know where or when that point is reached. So diva errs on the side of caution, which is fair enough. I think her threshold needs to be even lower, but that’s just me.

And sometimes you do have to fight a bit for what you believe in, you do have to take on the creeps. Sometimes you don’t have the luxury of choosing a more polite opponent, sometimes you have to make clear your position and you can’t let the bullies win. Personally I find it frustrating that not enough of you on this blog (and others) have stood up clearly and solidly against the occasional attack from the right-wing creeps. It’s just typing, people. Is that so hard?

Diva fights back mostly by keeping her blog going even when the pointlessness seems overwhelming. It’s a valuable role she and other bloghosts play, providing a space for people to make their voices heard - no easy trick, considering how some of us tend to go off the deep end occasionally. (Well, not me, I wasn’t talking about me, I never go off the deep end, I’m the fucking reincarnation of Mother Theresa.) The only justice they offer is their own sense of fairness, which they question and question again in public. And they don’t delete enough comments, in my opinion, they tend to let the neanderthals have more air than they deserve. But then that’s what makes their spaces interesting. You will not find that sort of internal debate on the right-wing blogs.

What’s my point again? That writing is better than deleting. That fighting is better than walking away. And that there are always exceptions to these rules.

Persistence wins the battles and the wars. Unfortunately, at this point in time, the racists and the sexists and the militarists are far more persistent and pugnacious than the human rights advocates. The right has momentum, and they’re taking all of us for a ride to catastrophe. If we don’t stand up to them occasionally, they will happily bulldoze straight over us. If you, as a decent human being who believes in human rights yada yadda yadda, feel you can live with yourself without taking a stand now and then, then good for you - schmuck. The blogosphere is the only truly public forum we have left and what we write does make a small difference. So write.

I don’t keep count.

Beatriz

If you are refering to real life then the answer is a lot more complex. If you are refering to blogs, then the difficulty has been defining the terms on which I am willing to argue with certain people. If it was an argument with you it is different than an argument with a troll. You have been polite, respectful and curious. This makes a difference, We may not agree on everything but you have never resorted to the kind of trickery bloggers face most days. Just to add my two pence worth (sorry no cents from me) I have walked away once on this blog. When I was too sickened, in my heart, to stay and fight. I think you were around at that time and were one of those people that gave me the support to continue when I was on the verge of deleting the whole thing.

Walking away in real life is another story…

Sorry to butt in on this question but you really got me thinking. I hope Beatriz will be back to reply.

how many times have you walked away?

and how many ,, scuttled into a fight..?

im curious,,,?

=zardoz=

I hadn’t thought of that. You are right. Moderating a blog means comments are on hold, as you say, and this could affect the flow of conversation. Might not moderate after all, in light of this…

There is nothing written on my blog yet, but will let you know the URL as soon as there is… I’m still figuring out how to use wordpress: I find ‘categories’ particularly tricky as they seem to link all blogs, not just mine.

Should you delete? I’m thinking of perhaps ‘relocating’ these comments to a ‘hall of shame’ section of my blog, and that way the trolls can have their say and the rest of us can read their comments, if - and only when - we so wish.

Beatriz

I’m new to blogging and have only just decided to set up my own feminist blog. What I’d like to say is that my take on censorship and freedom of speech is that these are expressions for things that people do (i.e. not an abstract concept, a timeless idea or some philosophical conundrum etc.), or rather, things that are protected by law.

Do I allow these laws (what part have women - historically - played in law making, and dare I suggest that these laws perhaps were put in place in order to protect white male privilege?) to restrict the way I think about the world and the possibilities there are to change things for the better? No, I don’t. If someone is rude and/or threatening towards me, I walk away - and this I call: being assertive. If someone is rude and/or threatening towards me and I walk away - I am not censoring them, neither am I robbing them of their freedom of speech.

As pointed out by Scarf +, censorship is something governments do. As for freedom of speech: as I understand it - it is something that is protected by law, for those that can afford to use the law, more often than not used to further disempower and silence oppressed peoples and not, as often implied, as a means for oppressed peoples to challenge their oppressor.

My own blog will be moderated, i.e. I will read all comments before they are posted.

Beatriz

The thing is, Matt, we do know you. “By your words we will know you.”

We’re done now. Bye-bye.

Signed, respectfully,
Some Lib

WHACK HIM ,,,, ITS YOUR HOUSE YOUR RULES

DONT FESTER THE STEAM.
IT DOESNT DO ANY GOOD.

== Z ==

In the final analysis it’s your blog and anyone who doesn’t abide by its rules should be deleted. There are a million other sites where they can quite happily express their opinions.