JUST DELETE?
Published by deviousdiva April 3rd, 2006 in Personal.What should I do about people like this ? Should I just delete them? Should I leave them so that people can respond? I have always been against deleting people's comments.
This is what I say in my guidelines (which clearly many do not read)
I have no problem that people disagree with me. I do not want this to be a “well-said” “well-done” kind of blog. However, please keep it civil. Resorting to insults and abuse does not help the discussion or encourage any type of understanding I hate to resort to deleting comments but I will if I believe they are racist, misogynistic, homophobic, anti-semitic etc. If I find your comment offensive I will make it known that I do.
Does this need to change? Are people put off commenting here because of the presence of people like this? I know it's my blog and I can set the rules but I wonder what you think? I'm struggling with this one…again.
Hang loose like a cool Diva would and don’t indulge the pesky trolls. Why do you blog? Why do we write comments?
You blog because you want to, because it’s fun, because you like the contact with other people, because you want to get stuff out of yourself or for other reasons which you only know. We, those who comment, do so for the same reasons (and others). There is no more to it than that. If we don’t agree with what you’ve written, we tell you so (if we can be bothered and have nothing better to do), and why. If you don’t like what we say, you can delete our comment or leave it. It’s up to you. It’s your blog and you write the rules.
Would a Diva be upset if someone she’d never met called her a cupcake of a narcissist?
I have had some problems like this myself - my attitude now is that as long as the comment is not insulting or abusive then I let it stand, and respond with my now well worn comment “Go and READ MY WORDS!”; if it is insulting or abusive I simply delete it without bothering to respond. Such idiots are just out to wind people up, they don’t stop and think things through because invariably they have not even bothered to read what has been written properly… Don’t let them get to you, you write a great blog and they can’t take that away from you!
I was just writng a reply to Daffodil (welcome by the way) when Bondbloke’s comment came in and I lost what I was writing for some strange reason.
Anyway, what I was writing before was that I do delete abusive, racist /sexist/ homophobic comments (I get several per week) but some of these people do not fall neatly into that category. I felt it was fair to reply to this attack this time. After all, divas are only human. The cupcake thing really pi**ed me off. No-one calls me cupcake or baby or bitchy without some rebuke.
Thanks you two for your comments. It is always good to be reminded that there are people out there who are on your side.
He has a lexicon of about fifteen words. Once he has made about four or so sentences, and can’t get any further, he will move on to another blog where he can post the same fifteen-word sentences again. Don’t worry. Trolls are self-limiting that way.
of course, I would delete anything that was abusive pointed directly at me. Epithets, and the like. Otherwise, I usually let it stand. They prove my point for me.
I’m still grappling with the same thing on my blog Diva. If I leave offensive comments up, then it can be miscontrued that I: a) agree with the comment or b) allow my blog to be a forum for halfwits. If I remove the comment then I become the Digital Dictator. I’ve only ever removed one comment from my site because of its vulgar content. One thing’s for sure…I would definitely not stop commenting on your blog because of a few nescient remarks from others.
Yes, the problem is, when you get so many of them you spend all your time refuting them so you don’t confuse people into thinking you agree, and then you have no time for interesting dialogue….. !
Hi Txfeminist (welcome) thank you for the tip-off on this guy. I went over and read his comments over at your place. I very nearly choked on my tea (not for the first time) What an idiot. He wrote pretty much the same thing! I suppose I was thinking (ego maybe?) he had singled me out, especially when I read his hideous little post on his blog. But it seems to me, thanks to you pointing it out, that he was probably aiming for traffic to his site. Ha ha. He seems to be acheiving the opposite.
I think it was you Seawitch who said “give em enough rope”
For the most part they have in fact hung themselves. Remember e*******trist spontaneously combusting when I caught him posing as different people and lying about me? (apologies to those who do not know what I am talking about here but I do not want to get back into all that)
You are right. That’s exactly what I mean about comment deletion. You’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. Goodness, only one comment deleted? I have to delete two three times a week! And I mean seriously disgusting racist/sexist bullshit. Maybe it’s the nature of this blog that attracts them? Oh well… at least I have that option.
Trolls like this knucklehead got to me so much when I first started blogging that I actually took down my whole blog, and lost a lot of good posting in the process. This guy has found a button he can push, and he’s pushing it. He’s a lonely troll sitting in his room all alone, pretending he’s important and knowing he’s made somebody angry. That’s his life.
If somebody wants to debate or argue, fine. Leave the comment stand, and refute it. If someone calls names, or just speaks in an offensive way, that person is done. Gone.
In this case, the answer’s easy: Hit “delete” and move on to other things, like your lovely blog. YOU have something to say. He doesn’t.
I love how a loser like David thinks he knows me. He doesn’t know jack. But it’s not the first time some Lib thinks he’s got it all figured out when he really doesn’t know chocolate from shinola.
And TX acts like she has a huge repertoire and engages in intelligent discussion. I don’t think she has fifteen words at all. Just “patriarchy, patriarchy.” Intelligent discussion my eye!
No Diva, as I said, I’ll ease up. If you are the strong person you claim to be and I supposedly this unintelligent troll, then you should be more than a match for me. You’re not like TxFembot who deletes everything that doesn’t rigidly conform to what her small mind demands. You are better than that. I’ll give you that much.
The “give ‘em enough rope” approach does seem to be working…
::rolls my eyes:: whatever you say
I usually go for the ‘give em enough rope’ approach (which has clearly worked on this thread DD
). I’ve never yet deleted a comment from my blog, although I will do if a troll uses language that I deem to be threatening people other than me. Trolls need no encouragement to make themselves sound stupid, and they often inadvertantly prove the very point I was making in the original post!
Sometimes I ignore the comment and let it stand for others to pull apart or challenge, but if I feel the comment expresses an idea that calls for immediate answer (eg., a dangerous idea about violence, or something widespread that needs refuting) then I reply.
One thing I firmly believe is that I do not have to take any shit that I don’t want to take. It’s not a fucking case of ‘freedom of speech’; it’s my blog, and I’ll do what I want with it. If they want to ’speak freely’ against me or what I stand for, then they can use the rest of the internet for that- I won’t try and stop them.
SeaWitch had a good point about deleting comments, having recently had to delete some left by the English Nationalists I was accused by them of censorship; never mind the fact that the comments were abusive, vulgar and insulting directed at me. I do not believe in censorship, but I do believe that some people should be censored if they cannot keep their obnoxious filth to themselves. Mostly the comments from the Nationalists just prove my point; and I have to admith they brought one hell of a lot of traffic to the blog, so the laugh is o them.
Two cents here. Freedom of speech is different to common politeness. Unfortuately for the rest of us, deviousdiva is not a government. She’s just a blogger, and deleting comments on a blog is not censorship - a government ban on blogs is censorship. As it is, people can write whatever they like wherever they like on the internet except…here. This is diva’s house.
If a person comes to your house and starts flailing away with vitriol, that person isn’t going to be invited back. If a person comes to your house and happens to disagree with some of your ideas, it’s fair to expect some civility. Failing that, the door is over there.
I’m a big believer in freedom of speech, and that includes allowing people to express ideas that I find despicable. People should be allowed to blog on any subject under the sun. But that doesn’t mean they can appear in someone else’s space and expect a warm welcome. If this Matt character wants kindness and sympathy as a borderline fascist, he should go to St*rmfront with the rest of the knuckledraggers and they can have a nice, manly group hug. Or he can start his own unnoticeable little blog.
Diva, you’re not running a kindergarten here. You’re not obligated to sit down and explain to some hostile creep why human rights are important. If he wants to understand, he will. If he just wants to use your space to rail and rant, you can either let him or…not.
Your blog, your rules.
DD,
It took me a long while to actually understand that I can delete anything I want. Quite frankly, as others have pointed out, it’s your space and you don’t owe anything to anyone.
No, what they want is to be able to come to your site, spout all the shit they want to about you, and be allowed to leave it up for all to see. Sometimes, I *do* leave them up, only as a sort of point that this is what we’re fighting. However, since I started taking the path of, “My space, my rules” the trolls have abated somewhat.
It’s also fun to leave them up but change what they’ve said. On a particuarly vitriolic response I’ll just change their comments to read something like, “Thank you so much BB, you are an inspiration and I now see what a misogynist ass I have been. You are a true light in the dark and your words are an inspiration to poor wretches like me”
Of course, I do note that the comment was ‘edited by siteowner’ at the end. (BTW, that particular course of action really pisses them off)
Hey BB, I’ve read your edited comments and they are hilarious. Good for you. In the end, you do what you have to do. Your house/blog, your rules. I guess if we were so inclined we would be over on their sites commenting like mad. Funny how we don’t feel the need? LOL.DD
To tell the truth I’ve had a lot of laughs with this one.
No, you don’t need to change your rule about posting. I believe that you should never post anything that you wouldn’t say to somebody in person. Freedom of speech does not include the right to write anonymous poison letters.
In the final analysis it’s your blog and anyone who doesn’t abide by its rules should be deleted. There are a million other sites where they can quite happily express their opinions.
hiya ms DD
WHACK HIM ,,,, ITS YOUR HOUSE YOUR RULES
DONT FESTER THE STEAM.
IT DOESNT DO ANY GOOD.
== Z ==
Matt: You did a pretty good job of explaining exactly where you’re coming from: no help needed from here. The name-calling alone says it all.
The thing is, Matt, we do know you. “By your words we will know you.”
We’re done now. Bye-bye.
Signed, respectfully,
Some Lib
Hello DD,
I’m new to blogging and have only just decided to set up my own feminist blog. What I’d like to say is that my take on censorship and freedom of speech is that these are expressions for things that people do (i.e. not an abstract concept, a timeless idea or some philosophical conundrum etc.), or rather, things that are protected by law.
Do I allow these laws (what part have women - historically - played in law making, and dare I suggest that these laws perhaps were put in place in order to protect white male privilege?) to restrict the way I think about the world and the possibilities there are to change things for the better? No, I don’t. If someone is rude and/or threatening towards me, I walk away - and this I call: being assertive. If someone is rude and/or threatening towards me and I walk away - I am not censoring them, neither am I robbing them of their freedom of speech.
As pointed out by Scarf +, censorship is something governments do. As for freedom of speech: as I understand it - it is something that is protected by law, for those that can afford to use the law, more often than not used to further disempower and silence oppressed peoples and not, as often implied, as a means for oppressed peoples to challenge their oppressor.
My own blog will be moderated, i.e. I will read all comments before they are posted.
Beatriz
Diva, I found that the best way to deal with it, both personally and to show them for the small minded idiots that they are;and I have to say that it somewhat stopped them in their tracks to have it all thrown back in their faces.
Hi Beatriz and welcome. What is the URL to your blog? I look forward to reading it. You make some interesting points here. Like you and scarf+ said we are not governments and we are allowed to make our own rules on the way we run our spaces. I have considered comment moderation in the past but decided against it because it seems to make the ‘conversation” a little stilted. I have to sleep at some point each day (believe it or not) so those comments would be on hold until I get back here. I think the point is that each person must decide for his/herself, how to run things on their blog.
Hello Devious Diva,
I hadn’t thought of that. You are right. Moderating a blog means comments are on hold, as you say, and this could affect the flow of conversation. Might not moderate after all, in light of this…
There is nothing written on my blog yet, but will let you know the URL as soon as there is… I’m still figuring out how to use wordpress: I find ‘categories’ particularly tricky as they seem to link all blogs, not just mine.
Should you delete? I’m thinking of perhaps ‘relocating’ these comments to a ‘hall of shame’ section of my blog, and that way the trolls can have their say and the rest of us can read their comments, if - and only when - we so wish.
Beatriz
beatriz , just out of curiosity
how many times have you walked away?
and how many ,, scuttled into a fight..?
im curious,,,?
=zardoz=
Hi Zardoz, just to clarify, do you mean in real life or on a blog? (I know this question was directed to Beatriz but I wanted to play)
If you are refering to real life then the answer is a lot more complex. If you are refering to blogs, then the difficulty has been defining the terms on which I am willing to argue with certain people. If it was an argument with you it is different than an argument with a troll. You have been polite, respectful and curious. This makes a difference, We may not agree on everything but you have never resorted to the kind of trickery bloggers face most days. Just to add my two pence worth (sorry no cents from me) I have walked away once on this blog. When I was too sickened, in my heart, to stay and fight. I think you were around at that time and were one of those people that gave me the support to continue when I was on the verge of deleting the whole thing.
Walking away in real life is another story…
Sorry to butt in on this question but you really got me thinking. I hope Beatriz will be back to reply.
Zardoz,
I don’t keep count.
Beatriz
Something Beatriz said has been bothering me.
“Do I allow these laws (what part have women - historically - played in law making, and dare I suggest that these laws perhaps were put in place in order to protect white male privilege?) to restrict the way I think about the world and the possibilities there are to change things for the better? No, I don’t. If someone is rude and/or threatening towards me, I walk away - and this I call: being assertive. If someone is rude and/or threatening towards me and I walk away - I am not censoring them, neither am I robbing them of their freedom of speech.
Sorry, I don’t quite follow. Are you raising the question that freedom of speech might be just another pillar of white male privilege? Are you implying that some form of feminism can provide a superior alternative? That’s….well, that’s just silly.
As for walking away…look, B. I don’t know you, maybe I didn’t quite get your point, and I honestly wish you all the best of luck with your blog, but for fuck’s sake get real. Walking away is NOT being assertive. It’s cowardice.
The thing that bothers diva and the rest of the bloghosts on this thread is that deleting comments feels like a violent act. It’s striking out someone’s voice and erasing their thoughts. Some people get a control thrill out of doing stuff like that, but mostly it is not something that feels fair or good. I am not a pacifist, but I believe that violence is completely unpredictable and quite often the outcomes are final. For those of us with nagging doubts about almost everything, deleting comments is too extreme as a policy and it is no way to live.
But deleting comments really is one way to fight. Writing a response to a post is another. There’s a time and place for both.
Sometimes there’s a point where it becomes obvious that a poster is not interested in ideas, is not interested in listening, is only using your space to rant and express anger and hostility at the world. That’s when deleting comments does the world a favour, but it’s not so easy to always know where or when that point is reached. So diva errs on the side of caution, which is fair enough. I think her threshold needs to be even lower, but that’s just me.
And sometimes you do have to fight a bit for what you believe in, you do have to take on the creeps. Sometimes you don’t have the luxury of choosing a more polite opponent, sometimes you have to make clear your position and you can’t let the bullies win. Personally I find it frustrating that not enough of you on this blog (and others) have stood up clearly and solidly against the occasional attack from the right-wing creeps. It’s just typing, people. Is that so hard?
Diva fights back mostly by keeping her blog going even when the pointlessness seems overwhelming. It’s a valuable role she and other bloghosts play, providing a space for people to make their voices heard - no easy trick, considering how some of us tend to go off the deep end occasionally. (Well, not me, I wasn’t talking about me, I never go off the deep end, I’m the fucking reincarnation of Mother Theresa.) The only justice they offer is their own sense of fairness, which they question and question again in public. And they don’t delete enough comments, in my opinion, they tend to let the neanderthals have more air than they deserve. But then that’s what makes their spaces interesting. You will not find that sort of internal debate on the right-wing blogs.
What’s my point again? That writing is better than deleting. That fighting is better than walking away. And that there are always exceptions to these rules.
Persistence wins the battles and the wars. Unfortunately, at this point in time, the racists and the sexists and the militarists are far more persistent and pugnacious than the human rights advocates. The right has momentum, and they’re taking all of us for a ride to catastrophe. If we don’t stand up to them occasionally, they will happily bulldoze straight over us. If you, as a decent human being who believes in human rights yada yadda yadda, feel you can live with yourself without taking a stand now and then, then good for you - schmuck. The blogosphere is the only truly public forum we have left and what we write does make a small difference. So write.
I don’t have a problem with deleting comments, and I do not see it as a violent act, neither do I see it as censorship, I see it as keeping my personal space respectful; I treat others with respect and I would hope that others treat me with respect. For me it is a respect issue, and if anyone transgresses that level of respect, whether in the form of insulting, abusive and vulgar comments, then I will treat such comments with the same lack of respect that I am being shown. And as I have pointed out in the past I do not force people to read what I write, and if they don’t like it then they are welcome to go elsewhere; but if they stay and want an argument then please show some respect. I suppose there will come an occasion where respect and freedom of speech issues will come into conflict, but I will deal with that problem when it arises.
Hallo, back again. I’ve been rather busy writing more than reading….
Guess Cato’s intimidated by intelligent women . heehee.
…..most trolls are.
Give me an intelligent woman before an intelligent man (if there is such a thing) everytime…