STILL WAITING
Published by deviousdiva March 9th, 2006 in Personal.Muslims in Athens have been waiting 27 years for a mosque (the only European capital without one) and it doesn’t look like the wait is anywhere near over. Building has started because of protests from the Orthodox church and from the local community.
I wrote this a while back
I have heard a rumour (and this is a rumour not fact) that because of the rule that no religious building can be built within 500 metres square of another of a different denomination, the Greek Orthodox church has quickly built a church on the land
If anyone knows anything more about this situation could you please let me know.
Recently from Reuters
Incensed by the project, the town’s residents built a large wooden cross on the land allocated for the mosque. A small Orthodox chapel has also appeared on the site.
Hmm.
Anyway, even if it ever does get built, it will not even be in Athens. It is 21 miles outside the city! How on earth will people be able to get there?
Muslims say Paiania is too far away for a community mainly based in central Athens but their options are limited.
“It’s far from the center (of Athens), but it’s better than nothing,” said Shah.
Read the full article from Reuters
As a Greek citizen I am so ashamed of how the Greek church has got the Greek state by the b*lls. Excuse me for my vulgarity. But this makes me so mad. The Greek Orthodox church goes and builds a chapel in the designated area where a Mosque was programmed to be! First come, first serve. Never mind about how un-civilised and un-Christian that sounds. Never mind how unethical -in terms of respecting your fellow man and his beliefs… [/rant off]
Regarding the 500 metre perimeter. I’ve heard of this rumor also. I’m sorry Ι can’t back it up with sources.
zardoz says:
recently i signed a petition, for the EUROPEAN COMMUNITY MP’s
to forward to turkey a notice of letting the byzantine church of AGIA SOFIA
in ISTANBUL to be used for church services by the patriarch of the greek orthodox
church there , for two reasons:
1. because the greekcommunity there should have rights to live and believe as they wish , in european turkey.
2. to see how the turkish people and policy’s will react to this kind of demand on
european scale. and if the people of turkey will make concessions to their local
minorities and people of other beliefs.
ON the other hand seeing what is being done with the building of an orthodox church
close to the site of an eventual MOSQUE ,
THINK AND FEEL VERY MAD ……..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IN CASE GREEKS ARE READING , THERE ARE TWO SOLUTIONS
1) I KNOW SOME CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES THAT HAVE BULLDOZERS
LETS BRING IT DOWN
2) ANYBODY GOT A WAY TO PUT THIS IN THE LIMELIGHT FOR THE PRESS
AND GOVERMENT TO TAKE STAND ON ..??
FOR ME PERSONALLY I REALLY DONT THINK THE MUSLIM PHILOSOPHY
OF ONE GOD DIFFERENTIATES FROM THE ONE GOD OF CHRISTIANS
AND ISLAM DOESNT REALLY NEED MOSQUES ,, THEY PREY ANYWERE
FIVE TIMES A DAY SO WHO IS YOU THE STUPID GREEK WHO
BUILT THE CHURCH 500 YARDS ,,,,,SO THE OTHER RELIGION COULDNT .
MAYBE HE LOOKS JUST THE SAME AS THE STUPID WOLVES , GREY IN COLOR
OF THE TURKISH IDIOT BARREL
THESE ARE TIMES WHEN I THINK THAT THE RIGHTS METHODS
FOR BOTH PEOPLES…
COULD BE USED , WHEN THRU POLITICS NOTHIN GETS DONE…
THAT WAS SAID IN ANGER .
PROBABLY I SHOYLD HAVE MORE FAITH IN MY HUMAN RACE .
== Z ==
zardoz
the petition you signed is the work of the same people/mentality with those bulding a church on the site of the mosque-to-be (never…)
the Greeks of Istanbul have NOT asked that Aghia Sofia be turned to a church and one shouold now that they operate a large numebr of churches - whihc does not eman that other rights are not suppressed
there are those hyper-patritots who call for aghia sofia to becoem a church and that norhtern epirus becomes autonomous or seceedes to Greece and succeed only in embarassing the minorities in Turley and Albanina and their very good spiritual leaders, the Patriarch and Archbishop of Tirana Yannoulatos
unbeknown to you you have served their cause and signed a text whixh anyway is full of inaccuarcies (like the supposed 1 million threshold as if reights are advoicated on the basis of mass numbers)
greek helsinki monitor
your comments have been noted , and appreciated.
thank you ,
ALL in all as far as the patriarch goes im sure there are no plans for agia sofia,
but rather for the support of the the local greek populace and and their churches.
ON the other hand the turkish tourism authorities have the same strategy
as the far right of greece for the AGIA SOFIA monument .
TOURISM BRINGS IN THE DOLLARS OR RUSSIAN CURRENCY IS JUST FINE FOR THEM.
ON A PERSONAL BASIS IM FOR THE BULLDOZER.
== Z ==
Have the Muslim migrants to Greece come to work or to prey? If they want to prey, then they should go back to Karachi and Cairo.
Greece should not encourage extremist religious sects – such as Islam – making the mistake the stupid English made, of ‘tolerating’ the culture and practices of these deluded fanatics, to such an extent that we, in England, are now being asked to respect and adapt our way of thinking to their evil ideology and if we don’t, then we must expect to be blown up on the trains and buses as we go to work.
Greeks, don’t be stupid, you got rid of the Turks for a reason. Don’t let them back in by the backdoor.
I made a silly spelling error – prey instead of pray – but then realised that perhaps it wasn’t so silly after all, more Freudian, since it fits in with the gist of my argument, which is that the contribution of migrants to a host society is often much less than the damage they do it.
This is particularly true, empirically, of Muslims, who ‘prey’ on the tolerance and freedom of Western societies to promulgate a political ideology masquerading as a religion, comparably vicious and anti-human to nazism and communism.
I insist that the Greeks, having been subjugated to the Muslims for 500 years, and seeing what they are capable of, contemporaneously, in Cyprus, Constantinople, Imvros and Tenedos, would be incredibly stupid to allow Islam to gain a stronger foothold in the country than it already has.
I believe that intolerant xenphobic fascists have other blogs to unleash their filth. And they should go to the millions of Greek migrants abroad that they should not have churches as they went there to work and not to pray.
Otherwise there were Orthodox butchering the Muslims in Bosnia just as there were Mulsims terrorising New York, Madrid and London. Should we hold the religions responsible for crimes in their name? Then they are all guilty and should be banished.
As much as I admire John Lennon’s “Imagine” that describes our utopia too, we must respect all religions as they are cherished by billions of people as well as condemn their excesses.
Greek Helsinki Monitor, yes, they do have plenty of other blogs to spread their rubbish around on but for some reason they like coming here. Perhaps it makes them feel cleverer or more powerful than they are in real life? This person has obviously succumbed to the extreme anti-muslim propaganda that is perpetrated by the tabloid media in England. People like him find it very hard to separate what they read in the trash press with real life.
Demonax…
For such liberal people I am amazed by your vitriol and hatred and am sorry that you find my views so offensive and would rather I didn’t interfere with your blog. For what it’s worth, I am a person of the left, who does not read the English tabloids (you seem to know more about them than I do) and is not intolerant, xenophobic or fascist. I come from a migrant background myself and am quite aware of racism, discrimination and so on. Nevertheless, I maintain that Islam is a political ideology that seeks to delineate human relations in a way I find appalling and outrageous and as such, just like nazism and communism, should be actively challenged and discouraged.
I also maintain that migrants have a responsibility to adapt as much as possible to the cultures of the countries they CHOOSE to live in, just like I believe host populations have a right to determine how their societies should be configured and to protect their culture and way of life if they feel it threatened. Since Poles, Russians, Britons, Africans and so on do not threaten the Greek way of life, I have no concerns about their presence in Greece, but since Islam is opposed in essence to Western civilisation, I am opposed to Greece, and other countries, facilitating the promulgation of its despicable message by building mosques and so on.
Demonax, I make no apologies for being angry at your sweeping generalisations and yes, your offensive attitude towards Muslims. Please read the guidelines on this blog if you are unclear about where I stand on comments such as yours.
Greek Helsinki Monitor and deviousdivas,
you are either naive and ignorant about what Islam is and stands for, or you are working for the “globalization” cause which wants to make a soup of especially the smaller peoples like the Greeks. Islam is not simply a religion, it is also a political system. That is why there are “islamic states” like Iran and other countries, or try to be ones. For this reason Islam has a fundamental rule to spread itself by any means. And it is known that Islam is an offensive religion. Until recently they had the rule to spread Islam “by fire and axe”. You cannot deny that it is the only religion in the world which kills anybody who converts to another religion. You ike to forget that the muslims in Afganistan want to kill a man for being converted to Christianity a few days ago. Or you don’t say anything about what happen to Rushdi.
And yes, the muslims want to transform the host countries societies rather than adapting themselves to live in those societies and they use the liberal laws of those countris in their favor. They complain all the time and they talk about human rights and so forth, but at the same time they forget tha human rights when it comes to their treatment of women or the rights of the other people in their countries of origin. Have you tried to go to Saoudi Arabia and carry a small cross with you?
So, western civilization and Islam are two mutually exclusive notions.
Finally, there is a BIG difference between tolerance (yes we must tolerate the muslim workers in Greece) and the acceptance of the muslim ways in our everyday life. That is why we have differrent nation states, because people have different ways and minorities should be respected but not able to dictate their ways to the majority of the host people.
How about we recognise a distinction between a faith, such as Islam, and a church/mosque where its followers congregate? A church is a building and a collection of people. It is not the same as a faith. To confuse the two is to make a category error. It is the warped interpretations of the faith at some of these gatherings that is a threat to the freedoms some of us enjoy and would do almost anything to see endure. The warped individuals will always be outnumbered, and one mosque does not present any threat to values which millions hold dear in national states everywhere, Muslim and non-Muslim alike. Why should believers not be entitled to worship in a building consecrated for that purpose, if that is what they want? Of course the state should not be required to finance the construction or give it tax breaks - at least not unless it subsidises another faith… If that were the case, then surely any left leaning liberal would argue for a level playing field.
Moreover, the fact that a faith - any faith - can be subverted to provide a justification for men to exercise power over women proves nothing at all except that some men do not like women. Even when God is dead, there is always Western pornography.
Actually it is worse. Why should they assemble to pray in the 40+ illegal semi-underground mosques -which are thus uncontrolled and vulnerable to infiltration by extremists who can also counter the marginalization by the Greek state- around Athens and not in 6-7 legal large mosques, as we have churches, synagogeus, even a Buddhist hall of prayer?
Not only in Greece, apparently
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....wstop.html