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	<title>Comments on: DEFINITIONS</title>
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	<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/</link>
	<description>The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: BondWoman</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14949</link>
		<dc:creator>BondWoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14949</guid>
		<description>Not to worry - i thought i had pressed the wrong button. A propos Brussels: i have never seen so much dog shit on the streets as in that city, and I remember when i was there in 1983 that I used to see old ladies come out of their houses and encourage their dogs to shit in front of the house next door, and then the next door lady would appear and send hers in front of the first one's house...I'll leave you to guess the ethnicity of said elderly ladies...</description>
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<p>Not to worry - i thought i had pressed the wrong button. A propos Brussels: i have never seen so much dog shit on the streets as in that city, and I remember when i was there in 1983 that I used to see old ladies come out of their houses and encourage their dogs to shit in front of the house next door, and then the next door lady would appear and send hers in front of the first one&#8217;s house&#8230;I&#8217;ll leave you to guess the ethnicity of said elderly ladies&#8230;
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14948</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14948</guid>
		<description>Welcome BondWoman, 
Sorry not to have said hi when you posted your comment. My spam catcher was being a little over zealous for some reason.
Here in Greece it is generally believed that the foreigners create all the litter. I can't tell you how many times I have seen Greeks themselves opening packets or eating a souvlaki and blatantly throwing the wrappers on the ground, while standing NEXT TO A BIN. It's an epidemic here. But hey, let's blame the foreigners rather than do anything about it.
I will check out your blog in a while. I hope to see you around here again.</description>
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<p>Welcome BondWoman,<br />
Sorry not to have said hi when you posted your comment. My spam catcher was being a little over zealous for some reason.<br />
Here in Greece it is generally believed that the foreigners create all the litter. I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I have seen Greeks themselves opening packets or eating a souvlaki and blatantly throwing the wrappers on the ground, while standing NEXT TO A BIN. It&#8217;s an epidemic here. But hey, let&#8217;s blame the foreigners rather than do anything about it.<br />
I will check out your blog in a while. I hope to see you around here again.
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		<title>By: sha</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14947</link>
		<dc:creator>sha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14947</guid>
		<description>this blog is close to my heart diva..no need to comment on my rants haha
just gave your link to my sis..</description>
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<p>this blog is close to my heart diva..no need to comment on my rants haha<br />
just gave your link to my sis..
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14946</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 06:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14946</guid>
		<description>Thank you sha, much appreciated. I do the same with all my blogroll friends. I read all new content but often have nothing to add or no time to leave a comment. It's great to know people are reading what you write, isn't it?</description>
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<p>Thank you sha, much appreciated. I do the same with all my blogroll friends. I read all new content but often have nothing to add or no time to leave a comment. It&#8217;s great to know people are reading what you write, isn&#8217;t it?
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		<title>By: sha</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14945</link>
		<dc:creator>sha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14945</guid>
		<description>Diva there are times I dont comment but I read all the thread... just to show my support!!!</description>
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<p>Diva there are times I dont comment but I read all the thread&#8230; just to show my support!!!
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14944</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14944</guid>
		<description>Well spotted SeaWitch ! LOL</description>
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<p>Well spotted SeaWitch ! LOL
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		<title>By: SeaWitch</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14943</link>
		<dc:creator>SeaWitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14943</guid>
		<description>What I find odd is that this commenter has chosen the name of a American-Greek poetess whose work appears in &lt;a HREF="http://www.americas.org/bookstore/product_4031" rel="nofollow"&gt;books about Human Rights&lt;/A&gt;. I would have thought someone with such views would have chosen a more appropriate Greek nickname...perhaps right winger parliamentarian and the leader of LAOS party, &lt;a HREF="http://www.greekembassy.org/Embassy/content/en/Article.aspx?office=8&#38;folder=531&#38;article=16176" rel="nofollow"&gt;Georgios Karatzaferis&lt;/A&gt; (last paragraph)
instead of &lt;a HREF="http://wps.prenhall.com/hss_hirschberg_millennium_3/0,4959,295529-,00.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Eleni Fourtouni&lt;/A&gt;.</description>
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<p>What I find odd is that this commenter has chosen the name of a American-Greek poetess whose work appears in <a HREF="http://www.americas.org/bookstore/product_4031" rel="nofollow">books about Human Rights</a>. I would have thought someone with such views would have chosen a more appropriate Greek nickname&#8230;perhaps right winger parliamentarian and the leader of LAOS party, <a HREF="http://www.greekembassy.org/Embassy/content/en/Article.aspx?office=8&amp;folder=531&amp;article=16176" rel="nofollow">Georgios Karatzaferis</a> (last paragraph)<br />
instead of <a HREF="http://wps.prenhall.com/hss_hirschberg_millennium_3/0,4959,295529-,00.html" rel="nofollow">Eleni Fourtouni</a>.
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		<title>By: deviousdiva</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14942</link>
		<dc:creator>deviousdiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14942</guid>
		<description>You're absolutely right, Laurelin. I seriously could not keep doing this without my bloggy support network. 
Hi Tanner, Thanks for the link. Much appreciated. 
The problem with people like eleni and the rest of the anti-immigration bunch is that nothing you can say or do will ever convince them that they are wrong. I have had my fair share of arguments on the issues but failed entirely and completely to reach any of them. They quote "statistics" and "facts" to prove their arguments. There is the fatal flaw. You cannot fight an argument with statistics. You throw one back at them, they'll find another one. Any idiot could tell you that statistics can be, and are, distorted to "prove" an argument. So I have tried to appeal to the more human part of that person and I am accused of not having facts, of being ignorant of reality, of being a liberal or a leftie (as if they were bad things to be), of being more prejudiced than they are "because I am arguing for my people!" That was the best one. Anyway, I know what you mean. It is impossible to argue for human rights and immigration rights by saying it's just the right thing to do, because we are human beings and we should be responsible towards other, and we should behave like the civilised people we say we are. You'll be shot down before you reach the end of the sentence. So, I do not aim to reach the extreme types anymore. They will go off and start their own blogs or frequent other peoples blogs that spout out all the bile they feel.  I will never succeed in  "winning" the argument. So I concentrate on those people who have not yet decided one way or the other on the issues. My focus is more on appealing to that humanity in all of us, that I know we have the ability to reach.</description>
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<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right, Laurelin. I seriously could not keep doing this without my bloggy support network.<br />
Hi Tanner, Thanks for the link. Much appreciated.<br />
The problem with people like eleni and the rest of the anti-immigration bunch is that nothing you can say or do will ever convince them that they are wrong. I have had my fair share of arguments on the issues but failed entirely and completely to reach any of them. They quote &#8220;statistics&#8221; and &#8220;facts&#8221; to prove their arguments. There is the fatal flaw. You cannot fight an argument with statistics. You throw one back at them, they&#8217;ll find another one. Any idiot could tell you that statistics can be, and are, distorted to &#8220;prove&#8221; an argument. So I have tried to appeal to the more human part of that person and I am accused of not having facts, of being ignorant of reality, of being a liberal or a leftie (as if they were bad things to be), of being more prejudiced than they are &#8220;because I am arguing for my people!&#8221; That was the best one. Anyway, I know what you mean. It is impossible to argue for human rights and immigration rights by saying it&#8217;s just the right thing to do, because we are human beings and we should be responsible towards other, and we should behave like the civilised people we say we are. You&#8217;ll be shot down before you reach the end of the sentence. So, I do not aim to reach the extreme types anymore. They will go off and start their own blogs or frequent other peoples blogs that spout out all the bile they feel.  I will never succeed in  &#8220;winning&#8221; the argument. So I concentrate on those people who have not yet decided one way or the other on the issues. My focus is more on appealing to that humanity in all of us, that I know we have the ability to reach.
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		<title>By: Tanner</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14941</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14941</guid>
		<description>If I had it my way, Greece's rejected refugees would be shipped immediately to America, where they'd probably all be able to find gainful employment in about three days. 

The problem I always have with arguing with people like Eleni is that, ultimately, I'm forced to argue on pragmatic grounds as well, at which point I invariably lose the argument. I want more liberal immigration policies, but I want them because I think they create win-win situations (i.e., we benefit economically while immigrants - you know - don't starve.) 

But as soon as Eleni posits something like, "okay but assume that we made immigration easier and from one year to the next, crime trippled" I'm at a bit of a loss. I, of course, don't think this would happen. But, unlike other issues on which I'm a total liberal (e.g. legalizing pot), I find it hard to stick to core principles on immigration when pragmatics fails me. 

You know what I mean?

P.S. I've linked to your blog from mine. Prepare yourself for at least &lt;b&gt;one&lt;/b&gt; extra visitor every two years!</description>
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<p>If I had it my way, Greece&#8217;s rejected refugees would be shipped immediately to America, where they&#8217;d probably all be able to find gainful employment in about three days. </p>
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<p>The problem I always have with arguing with people like Eleni is that, ultimately, I&#8217;m forced to argue on pragmatic grounds as well, at which point I invariably lose the argument. I want more liberal immigration policies, but I want them because I think they create win-win situations (i.e., we benefit economically while immigrants - you know - don&#8217;t starve.) </p>
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<p>But as soon as Eleni posits something like, &#8220;okay but assume that we made immigration easier and from one year to the next, crime trippled&#8221; I&#8217;m at a bit of a loss. I, of course, don&#8217;t think this would happen. But, unlike other issues on which I&#8217;m a total liberal (e.g. legalizing pot), I find it hard to stick to core principles on immigration when pragmatics fails me. </p>
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<p>You know what I mean?</p>
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<p>P.S. I&#8217;ve linked to your blog from mine. Prepare yourself for at least <b>one</b> extra visitor every two years!
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		<title>By: laurelin</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14940</link>
		<dc:creator>laurelin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14940</guid>
		<description>I'm always pleased when people comment on my posts to tell it like it is to the trolls- it just reminds me how supportive the blogging community is.

We have the same confusion of terms here in the UK, aided and abetted by the damned tabloids which use 'asylum seeker' interchangeably with 'illegal immigrant'. It's appalling and dishonest. I'm glad you've put the information here, people like eleni need to see it!</description>
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<p>I&#8217;m always pleased when people comment on my posts to tell it like it is to the trolls- it just reminds me how supportive the blogging community is.</p>
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<p>We have the same confusion of terms here in the UK, aided and abetted by the damned tabloids which use &#8216;asylum seeker&#8217; interchangeably with &#8216;illegal immigrant&#8217;. It&#8217;s appalling and dishonest. I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve put the information here, people like eleni need to see it!
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		<title>By: BondWoman</title>
		<link>http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14939</link>
		<dc:creator>BondWoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deviousdiva.com/2006/02/20/definitions/#comment-14939</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your clearheaded standing up for principles and rights. I've only glanced at your blog so far, but I subscribed to it, because I am (professionally and personally) interested in the issues you raise about "foreigners" in "other countries". If you want to get really angry about racial stereotyping at this difficult time, can I take the liberty of directing you to our blog, and suggesting you follow the links from &lt;a href="http://bondbloke.blogspot.com/2006/02/brussels-journal.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt; about the Brussels Journal to the source material. I got to thinking about it because of your mention at the beginning of your post about litter. Apparently, we have the "Moslems" to thank for all the litter in European cities...as you will see if you follow the links. It made me so, so angry to read the post on &lt;a href="http://www.brusselsjournal.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;Brussels Journal&lt;/a&gt; and follow the link back.</description>
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<p>Thanks for your clearheaded standing up for principles and rights. I&#8217;ve only glanced at your blog so far, but I subscribed to it, because I am (professionally and personally) interested in the issues you raise about &#8220;foreigners&#8221; in &#8220;other countries&#8221;. If you want to get really angry about racial stereotyping at this difficult time, can I take the liberty of directing you to our blog, and suggesting you follow the links from <a href="http://bondbloke.blogspot.com/2006/02/brussels-journal.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a> about the Brussels Journal to the source material. I got to thinking about it because of your mention at the beginning of your post about litter. Apparently, we have the &#8220;Moslems&#8221; to thank for all the litter in European cities&#8230;as you will see if you follow the links. It made me so, so angry to read the post on <a href="http://www.brusselsjournal.com" rel="nofollow">Brussels Journal</a> and follow the link back.
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