DEFINITIONS
Published by deviousdiva February 20th, 2006 in Personal.I arrived home from my daily trudge to get the kid to school (having battled the broken pavements, incompetent drivers, piles of dog shit and stinking rubbish bins), made myself a cup of tea and sat down to check my blog and answer any new comments as I always do. So thank you eleni fourtouni for making my monday morning SO much better than it already was.
I was a bit surprised because it was the first such comment from a women. The anti-immigrant lobby here has been a boys club until now.
Anyway, I was writing a reply to the charming woman, which was not in the spirit of my usual politeness, when another comment arrived in my inbox. From Curly who replied to her. Having people around, who respond to people like that, gives me so much hope. My belief that the vast majority of us are decent, responsible and caring people is confirmed.
So, for the benefit of eleni and anyone else who doesn’t know what they are talking about, here are some definitions… via the Refugee Council
Asylum Seeker
Someone who is fleeing persecution in their homeland, has arrived in another country, made themselves known to the authorities and exercised the legal right to apply for asylum.
Refugee
Someone whose asylum application has been successful and who is allowed to stay in another country having proved they would face persecution back home.
Failed Asylum Seeker
Someone whose asylum application has been turned down and is awaiting return to their country. If it is not safe for refused asylum seekers to return, they may have to stay for the time being.
Illegal Immigrant
Someone who has arrived in another country, intentionally not made themselves known to the authorities and has no legal basis for being there.
Economic Migrant
Someone who has moved to another country to work.
Under international law, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in the UK and to remain here until the authorities have assessed their asylum application. Therefore, there is no such thing as an ‘illegal’ or ‘bogus’ asylum seeker.
Asylum seekers do not come here for economic reasons. The top ten refugee-producing countries in 2003 all have poor human rights records or are places where war or conflict is on-going (Institute for Public Policy Research, 2003). The 1951 Refugee Convention guarantees the right to apply for asylum. It has saved millions of lives. No country has ever withdrawn from it.
Thanks for your clearheaded standing up for principles and rights. I’ve only glanced at your blog so far, but I subscribed to it, because I am (professionally and personally) interested in the issues you raise about “foreigners” in “other countries”. If you want to get really angry about racial stereotyping at this difficult time, can I take the liberty of directing you to our blog, and suggesting you follow the links from this post about the Brussels Journal to the source material. I got to thinking about it because of your mention at the beginning of your post about litter. Apparently, we have the “Moslems” to thank for all the litter in European cities…as you will see if you follow the links. It made me so, so angry to read the post on Brussels Journal and follow the link back.
I’m always pleased when people comment on my posts to tell it like it is to the trolls- it just reminds me how supportive the blogging community is.
We have the same confusion of terms here in the UK, aided and abetted by the damned tabloids which use ‘asylum seeker’ interchangeably with ‘illegal immigrant’. It’s appalling and dishonest. I’m glad you’ve put the information here, people like eleni need to see it!
If I had it my way, Greece’s rejected refugees would be shipped immediately to America, where they’d probably all be able to find gainful employment in about three days.
The problem I always have with arguing with people like Eleni is that, ultimately, I’m forced to argue on pragmatic grounds as well, at which point I invariably lose the argument. I want more liberal immigration policies, but I want them because I think they create win-win situations (i.e., we benefit economically while immigrants - you know - don’t starve.)
But as soon as Eleni posits something like, “okay but assume that we made immigration easier and from one year to the next, crime trippled” I’m at a bit of a loss. I, of course, don’t think this would happen. But, unlike other issues on which I’m a total liberal (e.g. legalizing pot), I find it hard to stick to core principles on immigration when pragmatics fails me.
You know what I mean?
P.S. I’ve linked to your blog from mine. Prepare yourself for at least one extra visitor every two years!
You’re absolutely right, Laurelin. I seriously could not keep doing this without my bloggy support network.
Hi Tanner, Thanks for the link. Much appreciated.
The problem with people like eleni and the rest of the anti-immigration bunch is that nothing you can say or do will ever convince them that they are wrong. I have had my fair share of arguments on the issues but failed entirely and completely to reach any of them. They quote “statistics” and “facts” to prove their arguments. There is the fatal flaw. You cannot fight an argument with statistics. You throw one back at them, they’ll find another one. Any idiot could tell you that statistics can be, and are, distorted to “prove” an argument. So I have tried to appeal to the more human part of that person and I am accused of not having facts, of being ignorant of reality, of being a liberal or a leftie (as if they were bad things to be), of being more prejudiced than they are “because I am arguing for my people!” That was the best one. Anyway, I know what you mean. It is impossible to argue for human rights and immigration rights by saying it’s just the right thing to do, because we are human beings and we should be responsible towards other, and we should behave like the civilised people we say we are. You’ll be shot down before you reach the end of the sentence. So, I do not aim to reach the extreme types anymore. They will go off and start their own blogs or frequent other peoples blogs that spout out all the bile they feel. I will never succeed in “winning” the argument. So I concentrate on those people who have not yet decided one way or the other on the issues. My focus is more on appealing to that humanity in all of us, that I know we have the ability to reach.
What I find odd is that this commenter has chosen the name of a American-Greek poetess whose work appears in books about Human Rights. I would have thought someone with such views would have chosen a more appropriate Greek nickname…perhaps right winger parliamentarian and the leader of LAOS party, Georgios Karatzaferis (last paragraph)
instead of Eleni Fourtouni.
Well spotted SeaWitch ! LOL
Diva there are times I dont comment but I read all the thread… just to show my support!!!
Thank you sha, much appreciated. I do the same with all my blogroll friends. I read all new content but often have nothing to add or no time to leave a comment. It’s great to know people are reading what you write, isn’t it?
this blog is close to my heart diva..no need to comment on my rants haha
just gave your link to my sis..
Welcome BondWoman,
Sorry not to have said hi when you posted your comment. My spam catcher was being a little over zealous for some reason.
Here in Greece it is generally believed that the foreigners create all the litter. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen Greeks themselves opening packets or eating a souvlaki and blatantly throwing the wrappers on the ground, while standing NEXT TO A BIN. It’s an epidemic here. But hey, let’s blame the foreigners rather than do anything about it.
I will check out your blog in a while. I hope to see you around here again.
Not to worry - i thought i had pressed the wrong button. A propos Brussels: i have never seen so much dog shit on the streets as in that city, and I remember when i was there in 1983 that I used to see old ladies come out of their houses and encourage their dogs to shit in front of the house next door, and then the next door lady would appear and send hers in front of the first one’s house…I’ll leave you to guess the ethnicity of said elderly ladies…