Comments on: DAY FOR TOLERANCE http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/ The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing. Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:44:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: deviousdiva http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14242 deviousdiva Fri, 10 Feb 2006 18:20:15 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14242 Thanks for dropping by Perry de Havilland. About a week after I posted the UN declaration we had a discussion about exactly the same thing and I agree with you when you write "tolerance does not require any ‘acceptance’ of other people or their views whatsoever". Thanks for dropping by Perry de Havilland. About a week after I posted the UN declaration we had a discussion about exactly the same thing and I agree with you when you write “tolerance does not require any ‘acceptance’ of other people or their views whatsoever”.

]]> By: Perry de Havilland http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14241 Perry de Havilland Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:14:22 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14241 I cannot agree with the UN definitions of tolerance as I would argue that tolerance does not require any 'acceptance' of other people or their views whatsoever. A hard core christian might deplore and abominate homosexuality, i.e. he does not accept it in any way, and yet still tolerate a person's right to live what he might describe as a sinful life. Likewise I might (and do) find a great many of the teachings of Islam vile and abominable (and not just because I am a Godless agnostic), yet I am quite willing to tolerate people holding and even espousing those views, regardless of my distaste. Similarly I fail to see what democracy has to do with tolerance. Democracy is a political system, a way of deciding who gets to control the collective means of coercion, it simply has nothing to do with tolerance, because tolerance is an objective right, not a political system. A law can be repressive and profoundly intolerant and yet quite democratic. In fact attempts to impose restrictions on my freedom of expression by using democratic political processed (such as certain elements of Muslim opinion are calling for) are just the use of proxy violence to enforce intolerant views. Yet if such laws were impose they would be imposed by democratically elected governments. And sorry to be so contrary, but even statements like 'education is the most effective means of preventing intolerance' are rather hollow. Does that mean a person educated at a Sharia school is less likely to be intolerant towards an agnostic westerner who likes to shoot his mouth off like me? In my experience a great many educators in the west trip over the non-trivial semantic differences between words like 'tolerance', 'acceptance' and 'respect', all of which have very different meanings indeed. I tolerate a great many things that I regard as being deplorable, wrong, mistaken, absurd and laughable... and *demand* the same tolerance from others who might see my views in much the same light. I neither expect nor need their respect or acceptance however, that is someone a person must earn from another, it is not a right. I cannot agree with the UN definitions of tolerance as I would argue that tolerance does not require any ‘acceptance’ of other people or their views whatsoever. A hard core christian might deplore and abominate homosexuality, i.e. he does not accept it in any way, and yet still tolerate a person’s right to live what he might describe as a sinful life. Likewise I might (and do) find a great many of the teachings of Islam vile and abominable (and not just because I am a Godless agnostic), yet I am quite willing to tolerate people holding and even espousing those views, regardless of my distaste.

Similarly I fail to see what democracy has to do with tolerance. Democracy is a political system, a way of deciding who gets to control the collective means of coercion, it simply has nothing to do with tolerance, because tolerance is an objective right, not a political system. A law can be repressive and profoundly intolerant and yet quite democratic. In fact attempts to impose restrictions on my freedom of expression by using democratic political processed (such as certain elements of Muslim opinion are calling for) are just the use of proxy violence to enforce intolerant views. Yet if such laws were impose they would be imposed by democratically elected governments.

And sorry to be so contrary, but even statements like ‘education is the most effective means of preventing intolerance’ are rather hollow. Does that mean a person educated at a Sharia school is less likely to be intolerant towards an agnostic westerner who likes to shoot his mouth off like me? In my experience a great many educators in the west trip over the non-trivial semantic differences between words like ‘tolerance’, ‘acceptance’ and ‘respect’, all of which have very different meanings indeed.

I tolerate a great many things that I regard as being deplorable, wrong, mistaken, absurd and laughable… and *demand* the same tolerance from others who might see my views in much the same light. I neither expect nor need their respect or acceptance however, that is someone a person must earn from another, it is not a right.

]]> By: deviousdiva http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14240 deviousdiva Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:23:00 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14240 I think we have to own the fears that we have of each other, and then, in some practical way, some daily way, figure out how to see people differently than the way we were brought up to. Alice Walker Oppression involves a failure of the imagination: the failure to imagine the full humanity of other human beings. Margaret Atwood The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell Though all society is founded on intolerance, all improvement is founded on tolerance" George Bernard Shaw I think we have to own the fears that we have of each other, and then, in some practical way, some daily way, figure out how to see people differently than the way we were brought up to.
Alice Walker

Oppression involves a failure of the imagination: the failure to imagine the full humanity of other human beings.
Margaret Atwood

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”
Bertrand Russell

Though all society is founded on intolerance, all improvement is founded on tolerance”
George Bernard Shaw

]]> By: Mike http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14239 Mike Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:57:00 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14239 Well, it worked for me dd (thanks), just hope you never regret showing me that! Article 4 - Education 4.1 Education is the most effective means of preventing intolerance. The first step in tolerance education is to teach people what their shared rights and freedoms are, so that they may be respected, and to promote the will to protect those of others. Yup, go along with that. Well, it worked for me dd (thanks), just hope you never regret showing me that!

Article 4 – Education

4.1 Education is the most effective means of preventing intolerance. The first step in tolerance education is to teach people what their shared rights and freedoms are, so that they may be respected, and to promote the will to protect those of others.

Yup, go along with that.

]]> By: deviousdiva http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14238 deviousdiva Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:30:00 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14238 Thanks for reminding me Mike, I wanted to post this a while ago. This is the html for putting a link in a message. Hope it's useful to others too. <a HREF="http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/linking/_A_HREF.html" rel="nofollow">html for links</A> Thanks for reminding me Mike, I wanted to post this a while ago. This is the html for putting a link in a message. Hope it’s useful to others too.

html for links

]]> By: Mike http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14237 Mike Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:12:00 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14237 uh, that post didn’t read right… interesting find there, anonymous, never come across that before. This link might make it easier for people to see it <a HREF="http://www.museumoftolerance.com" rel="nofollow">Museum of Tolerance</A> uh, that post didn’t read right… interesting find there, anonymous, never come across that before. This link might make it easier for people to see it Museum of Tolerance

]]> By: Mike http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14236 Mike Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:01:00 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14236 This post has been removed by the author. This post has been removed by the author.

]]> By: Anonymous http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14235 Anonymous Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:41:00 +0000 http://deviousdiva.com/2005/11/16/day-for-tolerance/#comment-14235 From Scruffy American: In Los Angeles, we even have a museum of tolerance which was real sobering to see. In case anyone wants to see it on line. It's http://www.museumoftolerance.com Cheers, Scruffy American From Scruffy American:

In Los Angeles, we even have a museum of tolerance which was real sobering to see. In case anyone wants to see it on line. It’s http://www.museumoftolerance.com

Cheers,
Scruffy American

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